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"requires human intervention every 13 miles" is a horrible metric, because it makes it sound it's not so bad until you remember that the moments for interventio

"requires human intervention every 13 miles" is a horrible metric, because it makes it sound it's not so bad until you remember that the moments for intervention are unpredictable and are also when you're just about to die.

QuercusMax 2y ago
MTBF of 13 miles, where "failure" could mean "fatal auto crash", sounds pretty terrible to me. That's 5 times per hour at 65 MPH.
- enaaem 2y ago
  Experience drivers often consider driving to be a relaxing activity. With FSD you practically become a driving instructor who has to super alert all the time.
  - LASR 2y ago
    This is exactly how I feel about FSD in my Model 3. It’s like supervising a teenager learning to drive, ready to take over at anytime. It’s a lot less stressful to just drive myself.
    - pants2 2y ago
      I do find that the rule-based, classic CV "lane assist / adaptive cruise control" of other makes is preferable, because it's extremely predictable. Tesla's full neural model is less predictable.
      - QuercusMax 2y ago
        I didn't hate that stuff on my 2019 Nissan Leaf. It was kinda funny how it would bounce back and forth between the lane lines sometimes. I didn't trust it enough to ignore the road, just enough to be able to switch my music without worrying about crashing.
    - gessha 2y ago
      I’m being nitpicky here but if you’re not driving in an instructor’s car and have a second steering wheel and pedals, you can’t take over. You can only touch the steering wheel from the passenger seat and maybe the handbrake. Full control including pedal control is impossible. As of now, I’d trust a teenager I’ve personally taught over some ML system any time.
jjk166 2y ago
I mean during regular driving there are moments requiring intervention that occur at unpredictable times and when you're about to die if not properly responded to, they're just awash in a sea of lower stakes interventions. My commute is about 3 miles and this morning I had two people in front of me slam their brakes unexpectedly and another person swerve into my lane just ahead of me. So that's roughly one high stakes human intervention per mile. I'm not saying that 13 per mile is good enough, but the metric does seem useful.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
  I think the difference is that you're already in prepared for intervention mode at that time, with hands on the wheel, foot on the pedal, and already observing traffic.

QuercusMax 2y ago

MTBF of 13 miles, where "failure" could mean "fatal auto crash", sounds pretty terrible to me. That's 5 times per hour at 65 MPH.

enaaem 2y ago
Experience drivers often consider driving to be a relaxing activity. With FSD you practically become a driving instructor who has to super alert all the time.
- LASR 2y ago
  This is exactly how I feel about FSD in my Model 3. It’s like supervising a teenager learning to drive, ready to take over at anytime. It’s a lot less stressful to just drive myself.
  - pants2 2y ago
    I do find that the rule-based, classic CV "lane assist / adaptive cruise control" of other makes is preferable, because it's extremely predictable. Tesla's full neural model is less predictable.
    - QuercusMax 2y ago
      I didn't hate that stuff on my 2019 Nissan Leaf. It was kinda funny how it would bounce back and forth between the lane lines sometimes. I didn't trust it enough to ignore the road, just enough to be able to switch my music without worrying about crashing.
  - gessha 2y ago
    I’m being nitpicky here but if you’re not driving in an instructor’s car and have a second steering wheel and pedals, you can’t take over. You can only touch the steering wheel from the passenger seat and maybe the handbrake. Full control including pedal control is impossible. As of now, I’d trust a teenager I’ve personally taught over some ML system any time.

jjk166 2y ago

I mean during regular driving there are moments requiring intervention that occur at unpredictable times and when you're about to die if not properly responded to, they're just awash in a sea of lower stakes interventions. My commute is about 3 miles and this morning I had two people in front of me slam their brakes unexpectedly and another person swerve into my lane just ahead of me. So that's roughly one high stakes human intervention per mile. I'm not saying that 13 per mile is good enough, but the metric does seem useful.

SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
I think the difference is that you're already in prepared for intervention mode at that time, with hands on the wheel, foot on the pedal, and already observing traffic.