4 ms·

This happens if you are handling utilization of employees the same way as utilization of machines. But somehow medical doctors with an own practice work (largel

by generic92034 2y ago

This happens if you are handling utilization of employees the same way as utilization of machines. But somehow medical doctors with an own practice work (largely) without doing 30-hour shifts, as opposed to their peers in hospitals.

zizicat 2y ago
No, it happens in state run industries. Government will drop regulations to make it easier for themselves any time. Truck drivers have similarly high responsibilities. But it is private industry, and there are strict regulations to prevent tiredness. If trucking would be state operated, we would get 30 hour driving shifts again!
- throwway120385 2y ago
  That's a strange assertion to make considering that in the medical field nearly every hospital and practice is privately owned. And the payer in most cases is private insurance. Why do you think that being overworked and burned out is only a product of publicly-owned enterprises when the medical field in the US is a perfect example of overwork and burnout in a private enterprise? The reason pilots in the US have very stringent well-followed rules around flight hours and fatigue has more to do with federal regulations being enforced stringently by the FAA. Which is pretty strong evidence that your assertion is baseless. If trucking had a regulator half as strong as the FAA you'd see similar rules around fatigue. Part of the problem with trucking is more a race to the bottom in the commodity service of moving something from point A to point B. When your pay is directly tied to mileage or to shipment contracts then of course working longer hours produces more mileage or more contracts. Federal regulation actually counteracts this perverse incentive. If anything medicine in the US needs more regulation of insurance companies and private equity owners of hospital systems. Those are the people who don't want to spend the money to hire enough nurses and hospital staff for every shift. If they raised wages for nursing staff and opened up more nursing schools the shortages would go away.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    > That's a strange assertion to make considering that in the medical field nearly every hospital and practice is privately owned. There are a limited number of seats in medical schools. The medical schools cannot limit these seats themselves, only the authority of the government makes that possible. Given that there is a direct relationship between the number of medical students and the number of future physicians/surgeons, and that there is a direct relationship between the number of physicians and the available physician man-hours, it must be true that government is limiting the number of physician man-hours for hospitals and other medical treatment venues. If they wanted to increase the supply of the latter, they know or should know how to accomplish that. Pretending that this is a private industry because there's some thin veneer of privatization is a little weird.
    - generic92034 2y ago
      I am not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that a higher number of medical doctors would improve the leverage of those doctors compared to hospitals. If anything the hospitals would be able to demand even more from their staff. Or do you think hospitals would just employ more doctors out of the goodness of their hearts?
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
        > I am not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that a higher number of medical doctors would improve the leverage of those doctors compared to hospitals. I Because you can only see this through the lens of your own politics, you end up very confused. Leverage might make things better for those doctors... but we're not talking about that. We're talking about making things better for the public. A greater supply of doctor hours are needed... no more can be squeezed out of the existing supply of doctors (not even if you paid them more). You start talking about this topic or thinking about it, and your brain goes immediately into the "oh noes, those poor doctors, they need more leverage or something, maybe they need a union!". All I see is that they are overworked because we have a very limited supply of man-hours. Truly, can you even force your mind to go to a place where you can think about how we might not overwork doctors? Do we just need to use medical treatment less? All those sick people are just greedy, but the doctors have to work 30 hour shifts during residency because they're shackled to the door handles or something? > If anything the hospitals would be able to demand even more from their staff. Yes, this would be true to some extent. But that's not the topic of conversation. It's not "how can we arrange these details so that doctors are compensated even more highly than they are now". It's literally "how can we arrange details do doctors aren't working 100 hours a week and killing people when they're falling asleep standing up". You've confused the two things, and you can't even tell. It's bizarre. I live in a world filled with p-zombies, I swear.
- soco 2y ago
  I am not aware of state-run hospitals, at least in my country. Also all those regulations you mentioned are coming from the push of the unions, not from the magic hand of private companies.

zizicat 2y ago

No, it happens in state run industries. Government will drop regulations to make it easier for themselves any time. Truck drivers have similarly high responsibilities. But it is private industry, and there are strict regulations to prevent tiredness. If trucking would be state operated, we would get 30 hour driving shifts again!

throwway120385 2y ago
That's a strange assertion to make considering that in the medical field nearly every hospital and practice is privately owned. And the payer in most cases is private insurance. Why do you think that being overworked and burned out is only a product of publicly-owned enterprises when the medical field in the US is a perfect example of overwork and burnout in a private enterprise? The reason pilots in the US have very stringent well-followed rules around flight hours and fatigue has more to do with federal regulations being enforced stringently by the FAA. Which is pretty strong evidence that your assertion is baseless. If trucking had a regulator half as strong as the FAA you'd see similar rules around fatigue. Part of the problem with trucking is more a race to the bottom in the commodity service of moving something from point A to point B. When your pay is directly tied to mileage or to shipment contracts then of course working longer hours produces more mileage or more contracts. Federal regulation actually counteracts this perverse incentive. If anything medicine in the US needs more regulation of insurance companies and private equity owners of hospital systems. Those are the people who don't want to spend the money to hire enough nurses and hospital staff for every shift. If they raised wages for nursing staff and opened up more nursing schools the shortages would go away.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
  > That's a strange assertion to make considering that in the medical field nearly every hospital and practice is privately owned. There are a limited number of seats in medical schools. The medical schools cannot limit these seats themselves, only the authority of the government makes that possible. Given that there is a direct relationship between the number of medical students and the number of future physicians/surgeons, and that there is a direct relationship between the number of physicians and the available physician man-hours, it must be true that government is limiting the number of physician man-hours for hospitals and other medical treatment venues. If they wanted to increase the supply of the latter, they know or should know how to accomplish that. Pretending that this is a private industry because there's some thin veneer of privatization is a little weird.
  - generic92034 2y ago
    I am not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that a higher number of medical doctors would improve the leverage of those doctors compared to hospitals. If anything the hospitals would be able to demand even more from their staff. Or do you think hospitals would just employ more doctors out of the goodness of their hearts?
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      > I am not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that a higher number of medical doctors would improve the leverage of those doctors compared to hospitals. I Because you can only see this through the lens of your own politics, you end up very confused. Leverage might make things better for those doctors... but we're not talking about that. We're talking about making things better for the public. A greater supply of doctor hours are needed... no more can be squeezed out of the existing supply of doctors (not even if you paid them more). You start talking about this topic or thinking about it, and your brain goes immediately into the "oh noes, those poor doctors, they need more leverage or something, maybe they need a union!". All I see is that they are overworked because we have a very limited supply of man-hours. Truly, can you even force your mind to go to a place where you can think about how we might not overwork doctors? Do we just need to use medical treatment less? All those sick people are just greedy, but the doctors have to work 30 hour shifts during residency because they're shackled to the door handles or something? > If anything the hospitals would be able to demand even more from their staff. Yes, this would be true to some extent. But that's not the topic of conversation. It's not "how can we arrange these details so that doctors are compensated even more highly than they are now". It's literally "how can we arrange details do doctors aren't working 100 hours a week and killing people when they're falling asleep standing up". You've confused the two things, and you can't even tell. It's bizarre. I live in a world filled with p-zombies, I swear.
soco 2y ago
I am not aware of state-run hospitals, at least in my country. Also all those regulations you mentioned are coming from the push of the unions, not from the magic hand of private companies.