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Trust Is Built in Drops and Lost in Buckets Negativity? Yes Facebook was negative for 20ish years and as a result of their behavior technical people don't like

by stiray 2y ago

Trust Is Built in Drops and Lost in Buckets Negativity? Yes Facebook was negative for 20ish years and as a result of their behavior technical people don't like them. This is not something, we are wrong about even if your "negativity here" silently suggests that. You reminded me of something, please read this article: https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/leave_my_brand_alone https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/leave_my_br... It is helpful for becoming negative to negative companies where they deserve it. IG Farben had great technology (for that time) but needed change of name and half of century of good service so they have been removed from our memory as producers of Cyclone B. Now they are known as Bayer. And my neighbor (concentration camp survivor), while he was alive, wasn't buying Bayer products and he was quite vocal about it. Any of them, regardless of technology, different people, different products,... Guess why. Will you say he was negative? Thats why FB was renamed and I am eagerly waiting what they will be like after 50 years. Until then, they will not be anywhere near my devices and even less filtering my sight.

raxxorraxor 2y ago
For me personally they build a lot of trust back with their work on llama. Also they do have capable software engineers. But hardware is a different thing. I am still burned by their handling of hardware support for Oculus devices. To such a degree that neither VR nor AR is of significant interest anymore, never mind developing software for such products. That said, I was never a Facebook user. I do have an account and that is that, which I tend to not use in most browser session because of Facebook surveillance.
- stiray 2y ago
  If you are android user, dont know about Apple, 3rd party applications are full of Facebook SDK, try installing https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases (and pay author a coffee, he seriously deserves it) and check the domains apps are accessing. You might figure out you are Facebook user. Just nobody told you.
  - JimDabell 2y ago
    This was the point of App Tracking Transparency (ATT) on iOS. If an app embeds a third-party SDK that tracks you, such as the Facebook SDK, they are required to get your permission first with a system popup. They aren’t allowed to track you silently without your knowledge.
    - hathawsh 2y ago
      I would be very interested in learning how ATT compares with Firefox's Enhanced Tracking Protection. Does anyone know?
      - JimDabell 2y ago
        To be clear, ATT is the system Apple put in place for native apps that is enforced by the App Store review process. When it comes to the browser, I think you’re more interested in Intelligent Tracking Prevention (ITP). You should check out WebKit‘s tracking prevention policy: https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention-policy/ https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention-policy/ Also the Privacy category on the WebKit blog: https://webkit.org/blog/category/privacy/ https://webkit.org/blog/category/privacy/ Specific blog posts you might be interested in are: https://webkit.org/blog/7675/intelligent-tracking-prevention/ https://webkit.org/blog/7675/intelligent-tracking-prevention... https://webkit.org/blog/9521/intelligent-tracking-prevention-2-3/ https://webkit.org/blog/9521/intelligent-tracking-prevention... https://webkit.org/blog/10218/full-third-party-cookie-blocking-and-more/ https://webkit.org/blog/10218/full-third-party-cookie-blocki... https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-tracking-defense/ https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-trac... https://webkit.org/blog/11545/updates-to-the-storage-access-api/ https://webkit.org/blog/11545/updates-to-the-storage-access-... https://webkit.org/blog/15697/private-browsing-2-0/ https://webkit.org/blog/15697/private-browsing-2-0/
    - stiray 2y ago
      Yes, I am aware, that Apple is trying very hard to be the only one in ecosystem, that is tracking you where you cant do anything to avoid it due to completely closed phone. With such a cure, you don't need disease. That is why I was using heavily modified Android. As I could prevent Android tracking me and kick the Google spyware out of it completely. I am now using Sailfish ( https://sailfishos.org https://sailfishos.org ) and I don't need to care about Google or Apple any more. Need to patch banking app from time to time and use plastic cards, but this is acceptable (well, not from bank software but I couldn't care less, they are free to port it to linux and make it open source /s ). --- Anyway, the GDPR is requiring from applications to disclose tracking and allow you to chose what tracking if any, you will allow, before it occurs. Not only that, PIA cant be a payment for app usage. So in theory, Apple is only enforcing what is already required from applications by EU directive.
- Meniceses 2y ago
  Paid and provided by "Pay to win games, targeting kids, not preventing fake news (covid, human harrassment etc.), probably someone died due to lack of taking ownership/responsibility, election fraud through not acting on it. Yes i do like Llama but lets be honest who paid for it and for what. Just because suckerburg gives us nice toys... He could actually start giving his money away to humanity in a relevant and meaningful way to start fixing what he did to our society.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > Paid and provided by "Pay to win games, targeting kids, not preventing fake news Guess what? New iOS features and YouTube videos are paid-for and provided in the exact same way. Both Apple and Google are complicit in spreading misinformation, advertising to kids and profiting from lootbox/microtransaction revenue. But nobody consciously objects to Apple for partnering with Taboola, or Google for supporting extremism on YouTube. No sane critic lashes out at Tim Cook or Sundar Pichai demanding they donate their life savings to offset the obvious damages they've created. I think Meta and moreover Facebook is a purely detestable platform. It's absolutely hilarious how unwilling this website is to apply the same criticism to their other favorite services. The cognitive dissonance is arresting.
    - bordercases 2y ago
      To be fair, you don't know what the poster believes about those services either.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        That's true, but my stance frankly wouldn't change if they also thought Google and Apple needed to spend the rest of their existence as a charity case. My point is more that it's a silly measure of damages, since this behavior is table stakes in the FAANG echelons. It's like saying that we should reject Open Source contributions by Google and Amazon because they pay their engineers with money made off exploitative server deals. It's a reach.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  I have made my peace with React (I know I can draw anything I can imagine with it, which I can't say for Vue, I can even draw 3-d worlds) but many people think React ruined web development.
zer0zzz 2y ago
Did you just compare a Silicon Valley tech company selling ads to IG Farben? It’s very hard to take this post seriously even though your point stands.
- hinkley 2y ago
  The tech company that got Donald Trump elected, and helped make all of our grandparents into lunatics? That Facebook?
  - zer0zzz 2y ago
    2017 called they want their meme back.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - hinkley 2y ago
      You remember that Facebook customer who got sued for breaking privacy agreements and profiling FB users? That’s the most public one. Also the Russians sitting around posting on social media meme is still actively in use. I’ve seen it at least a handful of times this month
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    Wasn't that Twitter? You know, the site he actually used?
- stiray 2y ago
  Not only my point stands, I still remember a world almost without narcissists, people traveling for fun, not to take a photo to brag, times where people listened to doctors not some people recommending horse dewormer, UK not suffering due to Brexit consequences ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/ ), people actually bonding in person,... Or in words of Umberto Eco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco ): “Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots” You are underestimating the horror that Facebook did to human society. I am accusing them of crime against humanity. And all that, just for selling ads - where you will be able to see the comparison with IG Farben, do whatever it takes, to earn money. I accept the argument, that if they wouldn't, someone else would, but nevertheless THEY did it or we would be talking about someone else.
hinkley 2y ago
In American history books we just call it Zyklon B.
rangestransform 2y ago
facebook has not been negative, they notably refused to play ball with the antipoaching agreements with other big tech companies in the bay, and technical people such as myself greatly respect them for it
zooq_ai 2y ago
Facebook still has 3B happy users. It's only privileged, highly-paid coastal elites that hate FB. Zuck, can literally say GFY as they don't matter in the broad scheme of things and innovations.
- vundercind 2y ago
  My non-computer-nerd midwestern friends, some of whom are blue collar and zero of whom are anywhere near making coastal FAANG or finance money, all hate Facebook.
  - RhodesianHunter 2y ago
    Yes, but are they on Instagram though?
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Oh, yes, because that’s how network effects work. Every single one would be happy if Meta and all its properties folded tomorrow, though.
    - alex1138 2y ago
      Why is this an argument? First of all x many people using something doesn't necessarily mean something is good (network effects if not fake accounts) but also buying up competition is somehow seen as a positive?
  - zooq_ai 2y ago
    Ummm sure buddy. Let's bring anecdotes vs real world data
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Where’s the data?

by stiray 2y ago

raxxorraxor 2y ago

For me personally they build a lot of trust back with their work on llama. Also they do have capable software engineers. But hardware is a different thing. I am still burned by their handling of hardware support for Oculus devices. To such a degree that neither VR nor AR is of significant interest anymore, never mind developing software for such products. That said, I was never a Facebook user. I do have an account and that is that, which I tend to not use in most browser session because of Facebook surveillance.

stiray 2y ago
If you are android user, dont know about Apple, 3rd party applications are full of Facebook SDK, try installing https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases (and pay author a coffee, he seriously deserves it) and check the domains apps are accessing. You might figure out you are Facebook user. Just nobody told you.
- JimDabell 2y ago
  This was the point of App Tracking Transparency (ATT) on iOS. If an app embeds a third-party SDK that tracks you, such as the Facebook SDK, they are required to get your permission first with a system popup. They aren’t allowed to track you silently without your knowledge.
  - hathawsh 2y ago
    I would be very interested in learning how ATT compares with Firefox's Enhanced Tracking Protection. Does anyone know?
    - JimDabell 2y ago
      To be clear, ATT is the system Apple put in place for native apps that is enforced by the App Store review process. When it comes to the browser, I think you’re more interested in Intelligent Tracking Prevention (ITP). You should check out WebKit‘s tracking prevention policy: https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention-policy/ https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention-policy/ Also the Privacy category on the WebKit blog: https://webkit.org/blog/category/privacy/ https://webkit.org/blog/category/privacy/ Specific blog posts you might be interested in are: https://webkit.org/blog/7675/intelligent-tracking-prevention/ https://webkit.org/blog/7675/intelligent-tracking-prevention... https://webkit.org/blog/9521/intelligent-tracking-prevention-2-3/ https://webkit.org/blog/9521/intelligent-tracking-prevention... https://webkit.org/blog/10218/full-third-party-cookie-blocking-and-more/ https://webkit.org/blog/10218/full-third-party-cookie-blocki... https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-tracking-defense/ https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-trac... https://webkit.org/blog/11545/updates-to-the-storage-access-api/ https://webkit.org/blog/11545/updates-to-the-storage-access-... https://webkit.org/blog/15697/private-browsing-2-0/ https://webkit.org/blog/15697/private-browsing-2-0/
  - stiray 2y ago
    Yes, I am aware, that Apple is trying very hard to be the only one in ecosystem, that is tracking you where you cant do anything to avoid it due to completely closed phone. With such a cure, you don't need disease. That is why I was using heavily modified Android. As I could prevent Android tracking me and kick the Google spyware out of it completely. I am now using Sailfish ( https://sailfishos.org https://sailfishos.org ) and I don't need to care about Google or Apple any more. Need to patch banking app from time to time and use plastic cards, but this is acceptable (well, not from bank software but I couldn't care less, they are free to port it to linux and make it open source /s ). --- Anyway, the GDPR is requiring from applications to disclose tracking and allow you to chose what tracking if any, you will allow, before it occurs. Not only that, PIA cant be a payment for app usage. So in theory, Apple is only enforcing what is already required from applications by EU directive.
Meniceses 2y ago
Paid and provided by "Pay to win games, targeting kids, not preventing fake news (covid, human harrassment etc.), probably someone died due to lack of taking ownership/responsibility, election fraud through not acting on it. Yes i do like Llama but lets be honest who paid for it and for what. Just because suckerburg gives us nice toys... He could actually start giving his money away to humanity in a relevant and meaningful way to start fixing what he did to our society.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > Paid and provided by "Pay to win games, targeting kids, not preventing fake news Guess what? New iOS features and YouTube videos are paid-for and provided in the exact same way. Both Apple and Google are complicit in spreading misinformation, advertising to kids and profiting from lootbox/microtransaction revenue. But nobody consciously objects to Apple for partnering with Taboola, or Google for supporting extremism on YouTube. No sane critic lashes out at Tim Cook or Sundar Pichai demanding they donate their life savings to offset the obvious damages they've created. I think Meta and moreover Facebook is a purely detestable platform. It's absolutely hilarious how unwilling this website is to apply the same criticism to their other favorite services. The cognitive dissonance is arresting.
  - bordercases 2y ago
    To be fair, you don't know what the poster believes about those services either.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      That's true, but my stance frankly wouldn't change if they also thought Google and Apple needed to spend the rest of their existence as a charity case. My point is more that it's a silly measure of damages, since this behavior is table stakes in the FAANG echelons. It's like saying that we should reject Open Source contributions by Google and Amazon because they pay their engineers with money made off exploitative server deals. It's a reach.
PaulHoule 2y ago
I have made my peace with React (I know I can draw anything I can imagine with it, which I can't say for Vue, I can even draw 3-d worlds) but many people think React ruined web development.

zer0zzz 2y ago

Did you just compare a Silicon Valley tech company selling ads to IG Farben? It’s very hard to take this post seriously even though your point stands.

hinkley 2y ago
The tech company that got Donald Trump elected, and helped make all of our grandparents into lunatics? That Facebook?
- zer0zzz 2y ago
  2017 called they want their meme back.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - hinkley 2y ago
    You remember that Facebook customer who got sued for breaking privacy agreements and profiling FB users? That’s the most public one. Also the Russians sitting around posting on social media meme is still actively in use. I’ve seen it at least a handful of times this month
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  Wasn't that Twitter? You know, the site he actually used?
stiray 2y ago
Not only my point stands, I still remember a world almost without narcissists, people traveling for fun, not to take a photo to brag, times where people listened to doctors not some people recommending horse dewormer, UK not suffering due to Brexit consequences ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8425058/ ), people actually bonding in person,... Or in words of Umberto Eco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco ): “Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots” You are underestimating the horror that Facebook did to human society. I am accusing them of crime against humanity. And all that, just for selling ads - where you will be able to see the comparison with IG Farben, do whatever it takes, to earn money. I accept the argument, that if they wouldn't, someone else would, but nevertheless THEY did it or we would be talking about someone else.

hinkley 2y ago

In American history books we just call it Zyklon B.

rangestransform 2y ago

facebook has not been negative, they notably refused to play ball with the antipoaching agreements with other big tech companies in the bay, and technical people such as myself greatly respect them for it

zooq_ai 2y ago

Facebook still has 3B happy users. It's only privileged, highly-paid coastal elites that hate FB. Zuck, can literally say GFY as they don't matter in the broad scheme of things and innovations.

vundercind 2y ago
My non-computer-nerd midwestern friends, some of whom are blue collar and zero of whom are anywhere near making coastal FAANG or finance money, all hate Facebook.
- RhodesianHunter 2y ago
  Yes, but are they on Instagram though?
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Oh, yes, because that’s how network effects work. Every single one would be happy if Meta and all its properties folded tomorrow, though.
  - alex1138 2y ago
    Why is this an argument? First of all x many people using something doesn't necessarily mean something is good (network effects if not fake accounts) but also buying up competition is somehow seen as a positive?
- zooq_ai 2y ago
  Ummm sure buddy. Let's bring anecdotes vs real world data
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Where’s the data?