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This is such a weird take. Of course it's not a gift. It's a trade. But it's a beneficial trade, just like how having a bakery near you is beneficial. Just beca

This is such a weird take. Of course it's not a gift. It's a trade. But it's a beneficial trade, just like how having a bakery near you is beneficial. Just because the bakery wants something in return doesn't mean that having a bakery near you isn't beneficial to the community. Just think about how weird it is to accuse the electric utility company of "not being there for altruistic reasons" or that "they are plundering your bank account". Like, is your life really better off if you save on utility bills while not having electricity? Nobody is forcing Africa to give China access to minerals. China is not coming with guns. African leaders have said multiple times that when they say "no" to China, then China says "okay here's another proposal". They don't return with an army to force you to sign. If African nations signed a bad deal then they ought to take responsibility for that. These are countries that are supposed to be accountable for their own decisions, not toddlers. The onus is on them to do their homework before they enter a deal. If you dislike the fact that Africa voluntarily makes such business deals with China, then maybe you ought to give Africa better business deals, or perhaps even gifts (as you seem to imply that only gifts are beneficial/valuable). Unfortunately, western countries are doing neither: they keep lecturing about not working with China while also not providing any alternatives. Why do you think Africa deals with China in the first place? Because dealing with China — even if China's deals are not always problem-free — is still more beneficial than inaction and the status quo! Africa benefits more from having roads, bridges, schools and hospitals than from hoarding minerals.

pvaldes 2y ago
Is really a friendly trade or just plounder? https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmental-footprint-in-africa/ https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmenta... The Chinese oil company Sinopec has been charged with mass pollution, dynamiting areas of a National Park in Gabon and carving roads through the forest According to GlobalTimber.org.uk, China is sourcing huge amounts of wood from forests in Cameroon, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon and Liberia. What is worrying is the illegal nature of this trade Half of all wood imported from Cameroon into China is harvested illegally. In Gabon, 70% of wood exports to China are illegal. In Liberia 100% is illegal The case of Nigeria and its Niger Delta oilfields is well known as an environmental disaster area
- FooBarWidget 2y ago
  Due to the scale, of course there are problems. Of course there are actors that are not well behaved. But that doesn't mean that these incidents are representative of the whole. Put it another way: if on the whole China's business is not net positive, then why does Africa continue to do business with China? Nothing prevents them from kicking all Chinese companies out. Nothing prevents them from giving fines to companies that violate the law. Nothing prevents them from renegotiating. African leaders have been saying for years that China's contributions are still net positive despite problems existing. I am puzzled. Why are you still pointing out problems? Why are you ignoring everything else I said? This is so non-constructive. Africa does not need the west to give another lecture (pointing out problems only). It needs the west to walk the talk: instead of smearing, offer Africans a better alternative than both China and inaction. Offer solutions, and actually deliver them.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    >> 100% of the wood in Liberia is exported to China illegally. > doesn't mean that [100%] are representative of the whole
    - FooBarWidget 2y ago
      Liberia is not the only African country. Liberia also exported significant amount of illegal Timber to other countries, including western countries, so framing this as a uniquely China problem is misleading and disingenuous. Now stop dodging and answer the other parts. Of is that too uncomfortable?

pvaldes 2y ago

Is really a friendly trade or just plounder? https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmental-footprint-in-africa/ https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmenta... The Chinese oil company Sinopec has been charged with mass pollution, dynamiting areas of a National Park in Gabon and carving roads through the forest According to GlobalTimber.org.uk, China is sourcing huge amounts of wood from forests in Cameroon, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon and Liberia. What is worrying is the illegal nature of this trade Half of all wood imported from Cameroon into China is harvested illegally. In Gabon, 70% of wood exports to China are illegal. In Liberia 100% is illegal The case of Nigeria and its Niger Delta oilfields is well known as an environmental disaster area

FooBarWidget 2y ago
Due to the scale, of course there are problems. Of course there are actors that are not well behaved. But that doesn't mean that these incidents are representative of the whole. Put it another way: if on the whole China's business is not net positive, then why does Africa continue to do business with China? Nothing prevents them from kicking all Chinese companies out. Nothing prevents them from giving fines to companies that violate the law. Nothing prevents them from renegotiating. African leaders have been saying for years that China's contributions are still net positive despite problems existing. I am puzzled. Why are you still pointing out problems? Why are you ignoring everything else I said? This is so non-constructive. Africa does not need the west to give another lecture (pointing out problems only). It needs the west to walk the talk: instead of smearing, offer Africans a better alternative than both China and inaction. Offer solutions, and actually deliver them.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  >> 100% of the wood in Liberia is exported to China illegally. > doesn't mean that [100%] are representative of the whole
  - FooBarWidget 2y ago
    Liberia is not the only African country. Liberia also exported significant amount of illegal Timber to other countries, including western countries, so framing this as a uniquely China problem is misleading and disingenuous. Now stop dodging and answer the other parts. Of is that too uncomfortable?