4 ms·

Can we stop connecting cars to the internet now?

bell-cot 2y ago
Why would any of the decision makers want to do that? It's not like 99.9% of consumers appear willing to pay 10 cents more for an unconnected car.
- squidgedcricket 2y ago
  The only way a connected car would be cheaper is if money is made from the data sent over the connection. Clearly that's the case right now. Up-front NRE, per unit HW, perpetual cloud backend maintenance. There's a lot of cost to connect a car to the internet. It should be a luxury option that I can decline to have installed.
  - sroussey 2y ago
    Recalls that can be fixed with over the air updates is a large financial reason to connect cars to the internet. Personally, I’d rather connect to my WiFi where I have control, but that’s a lot to ask for regular consumers.
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      My Kia Niro is connected to the internet yet I can't OTA apply anything. Updates to the navigation data (~80GB) have to be done via USB and recall related updates have to get applied by the manufacturer. So I get 100% of the attack surface and ~0% of the convenience.
      - sroussey 2y ago
        Oh god, that’s terrible! I wonder how many years that will take. Five years?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
barbazoo 2y ago
I'm trying to imagine time when I would want my car to be connected to the internet. Hard to come up with, other than remote locking, that's it for me. Not sure that's worth the attack surface. What I do find useful is the car having "cellular connectivity" to make emergency calls. But that doesn't require internet connectivity.
- supportengineer 2y ago
  Tesla does it very well. My Tesla connects to my home wi-fi. When it's parked in the driveway it can download and install firmware updates. They are somewhat frequent. Other than major UI changes, I have been happy with the way they add features and ensure stability. With the app it's very useful to be able to find out the location of the car, the status of the doors and windows, the current mileage, and be able to control the climate (Dog Mode, etc), warm up on cold mornings, cool down in summer. You can also get important notifications (i.e. Climate mode on for a long time, Door/Window is open, etc ) You might knock the remote climate feature but if you have dogs/kids/elderly it really improves their quality of life. There's another recent feature which supports streaming music such as Apple Music, without your phone needed. This is convenient and useful. Tesla charges $9.99 USD a month for this which I find to be extremely reasonable. ( I am an SRE and I know what it takes to maintain scalable secure infrastructures )
  - wannacboatmovie 2y ago
    GM introduced this functionality 25 years ago with OnStar. It's been around so long the technology is considered legacy with support farmed out to Filipinos. The fact that your car needs "somewhat frequent" updates doesn't concern you? Cars are effectively appliances, they should work right the first time, with minor updates here and there to fix serious issues which can be done in the safety of a shop at next scheduled service, and not risk pulling a Rivian and bricking the entire fleet at the push of a button.
    - ninalanyon 2y ago
      The over the air updates to my 2015 Tesla S have added features as well as fixing bugs.
krunck 2y ago
Yes, we can still modify our cars as we please. Maybe it won't be legal. But we are able to. And we should.
- maxwell 2y ago
  On the contrary—preventing modification of cars is illegal in my state.
supportengineer 2y ago
At least have a hard toggle switch mandated just like the button for emergency flashers.

Why would any of the decision makers want to do that? It's not like 99.9% of consumers appear willing to pay 10 cents more for an unconnected car.

squidgedcricket 2y ago
The only way a connected car would be cheaper is if money is made from the data sent over the connection. Clearly that's the case right now. Up-front NRE, per unit HW, perpetual cloud backend maintenance. There's a lot of cost to connect a car to the internet. It should be a luxury option that I can decline to have installed.
- sroussey 2y ago
  Recalls that can be fixed with over the air updates is a large financial reason to connect cars to the internet. Personally, I’d rather connect to my WiFi where I have control, but that’s a lot to ask for regular consumers.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    My Kia Niro is connected to the internet yet I can't OTA apply anything. Updates to the navigation data (~80GB) have to be done via USB and recall related updates have to get applied by the manufacturer. So I get 100% of the attack surface and ~0% of the convenience.
    - sroussey 2y ago
      Oh god, that’s terrible! I wonder how many years that will take. Five years?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

barbazoo 2y ago

I'm trying to imagine time when I would want my car to be connected to the internet. Hard to come up with, other than remote locking, that's it for me. Not sure that's worth the attack surface. What I do find useful is the car having "cellular connectivity" to make emergency calls. But that doesn't require internet connectivity.

supportengineer 2y ago
Tesla does it very well. My Tesla connects to my home wi-fi. When it's parked in the driveway it can download and install firmware updates. They are somewhat frequent. Other than major UI changes, I have been happy with the way they add features and ensure stability. With the app it's very useful to be able to find out the location of the car, the status of the doors and windows, the current mileage, and be able to control the climate (Dog Mode, etc), warm up on cold mornings, cool down in summer. You can also get important notifications (i.e. Climate mode on for a long time, Door/Window is open, etc ) You might knock the remote climate feature but if you have dogs/kids/elderly it really improves their quality of life. There's another recent feature which supports streaming music such as Apple Music, without your phone needed. This is convenient and useful. Tesla charges $9.99 USD a month for this which I find to be extremely reasonable. ( I am an SRE and I know what it takes to maintain scalable secure infrastructures )
- wannacboatmovie 2y ago
  GM introduced this functionality 25 years ago with OnStar. It's been around so long the technology is considered legacy with support farmed out to Filipinos. The fact that your car needs "somewhat frequent" updates doesn't concern you? Cars are effectively appliances, they should work right the first time, with minor updates here and there to fix serious issues which can be done in the safety of a shop at next scheduled service, and not risk pulling a Rivian and bricking the entire fleet at the push of a button.
  - ninalanyon 2y ago
    The over the air updates to my 2015 Tesla S have added features as well as fixing bugs.

krunck 2y ago

Yes, we can still modify our cars as we please. Maybe it won't be legal. But we are able to. And we should.

maxwell 2y ago
On the contrary—preventing modification of cars is illegal in my state.

supportengineer 2y ago

At least have a hard toggle switch mandated just like the button for emergency flashers.