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> The alternative is the npm hellscape where you have a package for "isOdd" and a package for "is even" that can break the entire ecosystem if the owner is disg

> The alternative is the npm hellscape where you have a package for "isOdd" and a package for "is even" that can break the entire ecosystem if the owner is disgruntled because everything depends on them. This used to be true 5-10 years ago. The js ecosystem moves fast and much has been done to fix the dependency sprawl.

dartos 2y ago
I… don’t think that’s true. Just look at how many downloads some of those packages have today. Look at the dependency tree for a next or nuxt app. What the js world did is make their build systems somewhat sane, whatwith not needing babel in every project anymore.
- throwitaway1123 2y ago
  > Look at the dependency tree for a next Looks ok to me: https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next Ironically, most of the dependencies are actually Rust crates used by swc and turbopack [1][2]. Try running `cargo tree` on either of those crates, it's enlightening to say the least. And of course, Node has a built in file watcher, and even the most popular third party package for file watching (Chokidar) has a single dependency [3]. [1] https://github.com/vercel/next.js/blob/07a55e03a31b16da1d0855f0309e2d8cf32e6113/Cargo.toml https://github.com/vercel/next.js/blob/07a55e03a31b16da1d085... [2] https://github.com/swc-project/swc/blob/b94a0e1fd2b900b05c5f18d3d993a74ff9cc6e7d/Cargo.toml https://github.com/swc-project/swc/blob/b94a0e1fd2b900b05c5f... [3] https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=chokidar https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=chokidar
  - dartos 2y ago
    Not sure what npmgraph is doing exactly, but there are more dependencies than that. React is a dependency of every next application, but I don’t see it there. Maybe next, the singular package, has fewer dependencies than a project made with next.
    - throwitaway1123 2y ago
      React and react-dom are peer dependencies (npmgraph lists them but doesn't graph them visually). The actual full installation command is: `npm install next@latest react@latest react-dom@latest`[1]. Even if you include react and react-dom, the dependency graph still looks tolerable to me: https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next%4014.2.13%2C+react%4018.3.1%2C+react-dom%4018.3.1 https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next%4014.2.13%2C+react%4018.3.1%... [1] https://nextjs.org/docs/getting-started/installation#manual-installation https://nextjs.org/docs/getting-started/installation#manual-...

dartos 2y ago

I… don’t think that’s true. Just look at how many downloads some of those packages have today. Look at the dependency tree for a next or nuxt app. What the js world did is make their build systems somewhat sane, whatwith not needing babel in every project anymore.

throwitaway1123 2y ago
> Look at the dependency tree for a next Looks ok to me: https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next Ironically, most of the dependencies are actually Rust crates used by swc and turbopack [1][2]. Try running `cargo tree` on either of those crates, it's enlightening to say the least. And of course, Node has a built in file watcher, and even the most popular third party package for file watching (Chokidar) has a single dependency [3]. [1] https://github.com/vercel/next.js/blob/07a55e03a31b16da1d0855f0309e2d8cf32e6113/Cargo.toml https://github.com/vercel/next.js/blob/07a55e03a31b16da1d085... [2] https://github.com/swc-project/swc/blob/b94a0e1fd2b900b05c5f18d3d993a74ff9cc6e7d/Cargo.toml https://github.com/swc-project/swc/blob/b94a0e1fd2b900b05c5f... [3] https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=chokidar https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=chokidar
- dartos 2y ago
  Not sure what npmgraph is doing exactly, but there are more dependencies than that. React is a dependency of every next application, but I don’t see it there. Maybe next, the singular package, has fewer dependencies than a project made with next.
  - throwitaway1123 2y ago
    React and react-dom are peer dependencies (npmgraph lists them but doesn't graph them visually). The actual full installation command is: `npm install next@latest react@latest react-dom@latest`[1]. Even if you include react and react-dom, the dependency graph still looks tolerable to me: https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next%4014.2.13%2C+react%4018.3.1%2C+react-dom%4018.3.1 https://npmgraph.js.org/?q=next%4014.2.13%2C+react%4018.3.1%... [1] https://nextjs.org/docs/getting-started/installation#manual-installation https://nextjs.org/docs/getting-started/installation#manual-...