4 ms·

Almost every single website and app in the world has some level of first party tracking. There is nothing at all wrong with it since you are a direct user of t

Almost every single website and app in the world has some level of first party tracking. There is nothing at all wrong with it since you are a direct user of the product or service.

manojlds 2y ago
They do use it to show ads in App Store and News though?
fsflover 2y ago
Not FLOSS apps.
- jodrellblank 2y ago
  https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attribution https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr... How to turn off the opt-out thing in Firefox 128 which gathers data on your browsing and sends it to third parties.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    Technically, Firefox is not FLOSS, according to FSF.
    - jraph 2y ago
      This statement would need more details. Firefox is in the repositories of most Linux distros' main repositories, most of which only allow free software. With this option enabled, unfortunately. Now, even if technically true for the official distribution (because I don't know, the DRM part, or something like this, although technically, I believe it is not part of this distribution, it is downloaded by open source code on first use), this seems like a weak rebuttal.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html
        jraph 2y ago
        At this point, I know this link almost by heart. This is not useful. It doesn't mention Firefox at all. It doesn't contradict at all what I'm saying. It doesn't hint at you being right neither. But okay, let's dig in anyway. PureOS, a FSF-approved distro listed by your link, has a FSF mirror and this mirror contains Firefox [1]. Mistakes (to be proven) aside, this makes for quite a strong endorsement from the FSF itself, actually. Now I expect some more substantive argument or I won't answer anymore. I'm a friend, I'm heavily biased toward FLOSS, it's not like I'm trying to downplay your activism around free software, but we need strong, convincing and correct and kind, gentle and respectful arguments if we want this to work. It's not even like I'm trying to defend Firefox at all cost, I don't like some recent moves from Mozilla including this one. [1] https://mirror.fsf.org/pureos/pool/main/f/firefox-esr/ https://mirror.fsf.org/pureos/pool/main/f/firefox-esr/
        fsflover 2y ago
        Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You are right in principle that FLOSS apps can and do have telemetry/surveillance included. In practice, it's much, much less frequent than for any proprietary apps. If we go even further and make the FLOSS definition as strict as it gets (i.e., stick to FSF), then such problem almost disappears. Does any other FSF-approved distro include Firefox? I guess Firefox should not belong to PureOS. If you read the criteria for the free distros, you will see that anything that downloads or even mentions nonfree software should be excluded. Even Debian was excluded for this reason, including one with only "main" repository enabled. Firefox mentions DRM and downloads it in just one click. AFAIK PureOS didn't include Firefox in the beginning, but the users demanded it. See also: https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-condemns-partnership-between-mozilla-and-adobe-to-support-digital-restrictions-management https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-condemns-partnership-between-mo... From the above link: > Use a version of Firefox without the EME code Oh, I found that Firefox in PureOS doesn't include the DRM part: https://forums.puri.sm/t/not-possible-to-enable-drm-content-streaming-in-firefox/19339 https://forums.puri.sm/t/not-possible-to-enable-drm-content-....

Almost every single website and app in the world has some level of first party tracking. There is nothing at all wrong with it since you are a direct user of the product or service.

manojlds 2y ago

They do use it to show ads in App Store and News though?

fsflover 2y ago

Not FLOSS apps.

jodrellblank 2y ago
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attribution https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attr... How to turn off the opt-out thing in Firefox 128 which gathers data on your browsing and sends it to third parties.
- fsflover 2y ago
  Technically, Firefox is not FLOSS, according to FSF.
  - jraph 2y ago
    This statement would need more details. Firefox is in the repositories of most Linux distros' main repositories, most of which only allow free software. With this option enabled, unfortunately. Now, even if technically true for the official distribution (because I don't know, the DRM part, or something like this, although technically, I believe it is not part of this distribution, it is downloaded by open source code on first use), this seems like a weak rebuttal.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html
      - jraph 2y ago
        At this point, I know this link almost by heart. This is not useful. It doesn't mention Firefox at all. It doesn't contradict at all what I'm saying. It doesn't hint at you being right neither. But okay, let's dig in anyway. PureOS, a FSF-approved distro listed by your link, has a FSF mirror and this mirror contains Firefox [1]. Mistakes (to be proven) aside, this makes for quite a strong endorsement from the FSF itself, actually. Now I expect some more substantive argument or I won't answer anymore. I'm a friend, I'm heavily biased toward FLOSS, it's not like I'm trying to downplay your activism around free software, but we need strong, convincing and correct and kind, gentle and respectful arguments if we want this to work. It's not even like I'm trying to defend Firefox at all cost, I don't like some recent moves from Mozilla including this one. [1] https://mirror.fsf.org/pureos/pool/main/f/firefox-esr/ https://mirror.fsf.org/pureos/pool/main/f/firefox-esr/
        fsflover 2y ago
        Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You are right in principle that FLOSS apps can and do have telemetry/surveillance included. In practice, it's much, much less frequent than for any proprietary apps. If we go even further and make the FLOSS definition as strict as it gets (i.e., stick to FSF), then such problem almost disappears. Does any other FSF-approved distro include Firefox? I guess Firefox should not belong to PureOS. If you read the criteria for the free distros, you will see that anything that downloads or even mentions nonfree software should be excluded. Even Debian was excluded for this reason, including one with only "main" repository enabled. Firefox mentions DRM and downloads it in just one click. AFAIK PureOS didn't include Firefox in the beginning, but the users demanded it. See also: https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-condemns-partnership-between-mozilla-and-adobe-to-support-digital-restrictions-management https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-condemns-partnership-between-mo... From the above link: > Use a version of Firefox without the EME code Oh, I found that Firefox in PureOS doesn't include the DRM part: https://forums.puri.sm/t/not-possible-to-enable-drm-content-streaming-in-firefox/19339 https://forums.puri.sm/t/not-possible-to-enable-drm-content-....