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There is an inevitability to the tone of this article that I find really depressing (probably because I tend to feel the same way). That The ability of students

There is an inevitability to the tone of this article that I find really depressing (probably because I tend to feel the same way). That The ability of students to think deeply and learn well has been severely diminished over the last decade. That AI use is not even a cause so much as a possible means of escape from the problem. On the one hand this feels true to me given my own experience, but on the other hand I know I still manage to learn and undertake complex tasks, so why should "kids these days" be doomed? How are you all feeling your attention span change? Are you able to sit and think or read long passages without distracting yourself? Were you ever able to do this? If you find yourself struggling, how do you manage? I find myself reaching for audiobooks much more frequently these days. Longer tasks are still possible if I find sufficient motivation. Curiosity is not always enough. I have to craft specific goals for myself in order to maintain motivation, but this takes me quite far in my self-study.

itronitron 2y ago
>> The ability of students to think deeply and learn well has been severely diminished I think it just reflects that most students are just taking classes in order to fulfill whatever requirements they need to progress to the next stage. If it was my class I would have just passed out index cards and given the students five minutes to write their responses before handing them back in. The upside to all of this is that teachers will more highly value actual responses over the cliche responses that students currently think they are supposed to provide (and which they get from ChatGPT)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
elashri 2y ago
It is not strange that companies now compete for your attention. People who do things and learn stuff need to focus and have a long timespan doing anything they are trying to do. The world is now full with many things trying to get your attention. Practicing self restrain mentally would prove to be the most important skill anyone can have nowadays.
- randomdata 2y ago
  Why would it be strange? We recognized that we were in an information economy 50-plus years ago, and were quite proud of it (at least back then). It turns out people don't buy information to stick in their storage locker. Without attention, you have no information business.
- piva00 2y ago
  > Practicing self restrain mentally would prove to be thr most important skill anyone can have nowadays. Which by definition will not be possible for the vast majority of people, human psychology doesn't change so easily and there are massive amounts of money spent by entities employing people trying to design experiences which tap into that. It's a similar issue with obesity, practicing self-restraint sounds logical and plausible until you look at the bigger picture and realise that while companies tap into human psychology/physiology to sell their sugary products it's not possible on a societal level to solve the issue by putting the responsibility unto individuals.
threatofrain 2y ago
IMO this question is different for software people because they may be spending hours per day already focused on specific problems.
jimbob45 2y ago
That The ability of students to think deeply and learn well has been severely diminished over the last decade. I don’t like the trend of blaming everything on the student. It feels like blaming the customer for not liking the chef’s food. Is it truly impossible to reach these kids or are teachers just using the wrong approach? Disclaimer: I am fully aware that bad student behaviors can exacerbate the situation and I realize teachers are forbidden from fixing that problem.
- travisjungroth 2y ago
  I wouldn’t take this as blaming the students. If a whole generation of students is worse at something, it must be systemic in some way.
- randomdata 2y ago
  Isn't the implication here that it is happening externally? To stick with your analogy, imagine something in the environment is altering the perception of taste. The blame is not being placed on the customer or the chef, but on the environmental factor.
tommiegannert 2y ago
At some point, schools were filled with students who wanted to go there. As more and more years in school become mandatory, you'll see more and more students doing the least amount of work. They don't want to be there. It's always been like this, we've just scaled it up by a lot (at least in Europe) lately. The burden of proof of abilities will keep going up as more advanced tools are developed. Employers will find new metrics to judge people based on. That's probably where coding interviews came from. Perhaps we'll go back to nepotism, or a social networking "achievements" web site; LinkedIn but with verified credentials. Maybe we'll all have to be published in a journal to show our abilities.
jemmyw 2y ago
I don't think it has anything to do with general population level attention span. It's just a result of growing older. My kids inhale books. I don't find the same joy in them as I used to unless they are very well written and/or contain sufficiently interesting ideas. As I get older time starts feeling more precious and there are more external pressures. So I've got more selective over everything. Maybe it's the same for you? Audiobooks let you do something else while listening.

itronitron 2y ago

>> The ability of students to think deeply and learn well has been severely diminished I think it just reflects that most students are just taking classes in order to fulfill whatever requirements they need to progress to the next stage. If it was my class I would have just passed out index cards and given the students five minutes to write their responses before handing them back in. The upside to all of this is that teachers will more highly value actual responses over the cliche responses that students currently think they are supposed to provide (and which they get from ChatGPT)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

elashri 2y ago

It is not strange that companies now compete for your attention. People who do things and learn stuff need to focus and have a long timespan doing anything they are trying to do. The world is now full with many things trying to get your attention. Practicing self restrain mentally would prove to be the most important skill anyone can have nowadays.

randomdata 2y ago
Why would it be strange? We recognized that we were in an information economy 50-plus years ago, and were quite proud of it (at least back then). It turns out people don't buy information to stick in their storage locker. Without attention, you have no information business.
piva00 2y ago
> Practicing self restrain mentally would prove to be thr most important skill anyone can have nowadays. Which by definition will not be possible for the vast majority of people, human psychology doesn't change so easily and there are massive amounts of money spent by entities employing people trying to design experiences which tap into that. It's a similar issue with obesity, practicing self-restraint sounds logical and plausible until you look at the bigger picture and realise that while companies tap into human psychology/physiology to sell their sugary products it's not possible on a societal level to solve the issue by putting the responsibility unto individuals.

threatofrain 2y ago

IMO this question is different for software people because they may be spending hours per day already focused on specific problems.

jimbob45 2y ago

That The ability of students to think deeply and learn well has been severely diminished over the last decade. I don’t like the trend of blaming everything on the student. It feels like blaming the customer for not liking the chef’s food. Is it truly impossible to reach these kids or are teachers just using the wrong approach? Disclaimer: I am fully aware that bad student behaviors can exacerbate the situation and I realize teachers are forbidden from fixing that problem.

travisjungroth 2y ago
I wouldn’t take this as blaming the students. If a whole generation of students is worse at something, it must be systemic in some way.
randomdata 2y ago
Isn't the implication here that it is happening externally? To stick with your analogy, imagine something in the environment is altering the perception of taste. The blame is not being placed on the customer or the chef, but on the environmental factor.

tommiegannert 2y ago

At some point, schools were filled with students who wanted to go there. As more and more years in school become mandatory, you'll see more and more students doing the least amount of work. They don't want to be there. It's always been like this, we've just scaled it up by a lot (at least in Europe) lately. The burden of proof of abilities will keep going up as more advanced tools are developed. Employers will find new metrics to judge people based on. That's probably where coding interviews came from. Perhaps we'll go back to nepotism, or a social networking "achievements" web site; LinkedIn but with verified credentials. Maybe we'll all have to be published in a journal to show our abilities.

jemmyw 2y ago

I don't think it has anything to do with general population level attention span. It's just a result of growing older. My kids inhale books. I don't find the same joy in them as I used to unless they are very well written and/or contain sufficiently interesting ideas. As I get older time starts feeling more precious and there are more external pressures. So I've got more selective over everything. Maybe it's the same for you? Audiobooks let you do something else while listening.