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You have no idea how clueless and privileged that idea is. Apparently you think that number is meant to encourage engineers who just landed a 200k FAANG job to

by brazzy 2y ago

You have no idea how clueless and privileged that idea is. Apparently you think that number is meant to encourage engineers who just landed a 200k FAANG job to buy a McMansion to get up to 30%. It's quite exactly the opposite: it's usually given as an upper limit to prevent people from getting houses they can't afford. And it's increasingly unrealistic for low-income people in HCOL areas because even the cheapest available housing is more than 30% of their income. As for who came up with it: it was originally an observation of what people were typically paying, which in the 60s became a limit for the price of public housing. And at that time it was 25%, changed to 30% in the 80s. Source: https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr_edge_featd_article_092214.html https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr_edge_featd_articl...

chiefalchemist 2y ago
Huh? I didn't say it was legit. Actually... You missed the obvious sarcasm. You missed the bit about the mindless media repeating it and not asking how legit is. The point about the banks, etc is that ALL those "experts" have incentives to get people to buy more than they can afford. Come on man, the math was all there... just take a moment to add it up.
- brazzy 2y ago
  Oh wow. You missed my point completely. I was saying that it IS legit. And that your idea that it is propaganda to "get people to buy more than they can afford" is clueless and privileged.
  - chiefalchemist 2y ago
    30% is legit? Oh come on now. We're seeing that it's not. We're seeing that if that's the baseline, the starting point, then it's too easy / tempting for many to go over that. When that happens, it gets normalized and that's a free pass for leadership / politicians to not address the issue. If 30% is housing, and 20% is healthcare (which keeps going up), and inflation is eating up more budget... What's left? Where is that increase in income coming from? The point is 30% of income is a false god. It's for fools. It's at best a fax machine.
    - brazzy 2y ago
      What part of "it's an upper limit, not a baseline" do you not understand? And an upper limit that people exceed not by choice but because there is no cheaper housing available. And the causes for that have absolutely nothing to do with the number. Again, it is a very, very privileged position where you can suggest that people should just spend less than those 30%, because it shows your income is big enough that a smaller proportion of it is still enough to afford something.
      - chiefalchemist 2y ago
        You're naive. What part of housing is priced such that 30% is the defacto baseline for most people, don't you understand? Individuals don't set the prices, the market does. And fyi home sellers and landlords love the phrase "what the market will bear". Sure, if you have two six figure incomes in your household you can come in at 25% or 20%, but everyone else... 30% would be a God send. Where and when did I suggest people just spend less? Again, I repeat, that 30% is a number used by people who... Wait for it... Make more money from higher prices. It's not the families setting that bar. We're done here. You're so intent on picking a fight that you're ignoring everything I'm saying. This is not what I come to HN for. Thanks. Good night.
        brazzy 2y ago
        > Individuals don't set the prices, the market does. Exactly. So why do you think the number is relevant in how actual prices are determined? > Again, I repeat, that 30% is a number used by people who... Wait for it... Make more money from higher prices. It's not the families setting that bar. And again, I repeat that is simply not true. > We're done here. You're so intent on picking a fight that you're ignoring everything I'm saying. You are describing your own behaviour.

by brazzy 2y ago

chiefalchemist 2y ago

Huh? I didn't say it was legit. Actually... You missed the obvious sarcasm. You missed the bit about the mindless media repeating it and not asking how legit is. The point about the banks, etc is that ALL those "experts" have incentives to get people to buy more than they can afford. Come on man, the math was all there... just take a moment to add it up.

brazzy 2y ago
Oh wow. You missed my point completely. I was saying that it IS legit. And that your idea that it is propaganda to "get people to buy more than they can afford" is clueless and privileged.
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  30% is legit? Oh come on now. We're seeing that it's not. We're seeing that if that's the baseline, the starting point, then it's too easy / tempting for many to go over that. When that happens, it gets normalized and that's a free pass for leadership / politicians to not address the issue. If 30% is housing, and 20% is healthcare (which keeps going up), and inflation is eating up more budget... What's left? Where is that increase in income coming from? The point is 30% of income is a false god. It's for fools. It's at best a fax machine.
  - brazzy 2y ago
    What part of "it's an upper limit, not a baseline" do you not understand? And an upper limit that people exceed not by choice but because there is no cheaper housing available. And the causes for that have absolutely nothing to do with the number. Again, it is a very, very privileged position where you can suggest that people should just spend less than those 30%, because it shows your income is big enough that a smaller proportion of it is still enough to afford something.
    - chiefalchemist 2y ago
      You're naive. What part of housing is priced such that 30% is the defacto baseline for most people, don't you understand? Individuals don't set the prices, the market does. And fyi home sellers and landlords love the phrase "what the market will bear". Sure, if you have two six figure incomes in your household you can come in at 25% or 20%, but everyone else... 30% would be a God send. Where and when did I suggest people just spend less? Again, I repeat, that 30% is a number used by people who... Wait for it... Make more money from higher prices. It's not the families setting that bar. We're done here. You're so intent on picking a fight that you're ignoring everything I'm saying. This is not what I come to HN for. Thanks. Good night.
      - brazzy 2y ago
        > Individuals don't set the prices, the market does. Exactly. So why do you think the number is relevant in how actual prices are determined? > Again, I repeat, that 30% is a number used by people who... Wait for it... Make more money from higher prices. It's not the families setting that bar. And again, I repeat that is simply not true. > We're done here. You're so intent on picking a fight that you're ignoring everything I'm saying. You are describing your own behaviour.