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> They depend on those subscriptions from us, because they represent loyalty and commitment. A subscription that only continues to exist because the unsubscrib

by pintxo 2y ago

> They depend on those subscriptions from us, because they represent loyalty and commitment. A subscription that only continues to exist because the unsubscribe process is harder than it needs to be can never represent loyality and commitment, as both require an act of free will.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
The act of free will was when you signed up in the first place and consented to being charged until cancellation, yeah? The acts of free will are when you continue using and enjoying their services for N months/years. An initial commitment and consent leads to interdependence and cooperation. Loyalty and trust must be earned, but provided that they are earned, they shouldn't be flouted in a capricious act. Why are you canceling? You found a cheaper price? A more attractive deal? Service was bad or not worth your money? Most everyone would agree that many commitments entail responsibilities as well. Do you accept responsibility, and liability, as a customer? If a company sends you to retention or comes up with special offers to keep you as a customer, that is not necessarily malicious behavior: they're demonstrating that they value your business, especially your money and future payments, and they're showing you what it's worth to keep that loyalty and commitment, and that's their act of free will, yes? The company would say that the retention process is still subject to free will, but they've got policies, you signed on to those policies, so let's follow the policies. Your free-will act is to decline those come-ons; it's your free will to refuse to run the gauntlet, but hey, caveat emptor? Can I one-click unsubscribe from my landlady? One-click close a bank or brokerage account? One-click renounce citizenship? Will California legislate 1-click Divorce Equality? Why not?
- pintxo 2y ago
  A: Yes, why not? B: There is no reason to move this discussion from subscriptions to online services to some totally different topic like citizenship.
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    It is not a "totally different topic" IMHO, but a spectrum of loyalty and commitment. I don't know the magnitude of the expatriate phenomenon for US citizens. But it would seem that, if a country (e.g. Sudan, Cuba, Vietnam) encounters an atmosphere for people to flee and leave and renounce their citizenship, as refugees, asylum seekers, or immigrant workers, then that nation is losing their #1 most valuable resource. Does not your country depend on its citizens for wealth, peace, labor, and a future? By analogy, only by weak analogy, does a company depend upon subscribers for the same sorts of things. I'm just saying that if the bonds of marriage no longer mean much at all, and we're all tenants renting our homes, rather than lifelong spouses or landowners, then the value of loyalty and commitment is already diminished, so who cares if I cancel my Cable TV? https://youtu.be/V5DeDLI8_IM?si=S-t6z-zZpDviuoBM https://youtu.be/V5DeDLI8_IM?si=S-t6z-zZpDviuoBM

by pintxo 2y ago

AStonesThrow 2y ago

The act of free will was when you signed up in the first place and consented to being charged until cancellation, yeah? The acts of free will are when you continue using and enjoying their services for N months/years. An initial commitment and consent leads to interdependence and cooperation. Loyalty and trust must be earned, but provided that they are earned, they shouldn't be flouted in a capricious act. Why are you canceling? You found a cheaper price? A more attractive deal? Service was bad or not worth your money? Most everyone would agree that many commitments entail responsibilities as well. Do you accept responsibility, and liability, as a customer? If a company sends you to retention or comes up with special offers to keep you as a customer, that is not necessarily malicious behavior: they're demonstrating that they value your business, especially your money and future payments, and they're showing you what it's worth to keep that loyalty and commitment, and that's their act of free will, yes? The company would say that the retention process is still subject to free will, but they've got policies, you signed on to those policies, so let's follow the policies. Your free-will act is to decline those come-ons; it's your free will to refuse to run the gauntlet, but hey, caveat emptor? Can I one-click unsubscribe from my landlady? One-click close a bank or brokerage account? One-click renounce citizenship? Will California legislate 1-click Divorce Equality? Why not?

pintxo 2y ago
A: Yes, why not? B: There is no reason to move this discussion from subscriptions to online services to some totally different topic like citizenship.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  It is not a "totally different topic" IMHO, but a spectrum of loyalty and commitment. I don't know the magnitude of the expatriate phenomenon for US citizens. But it would seem that, if a country (e.g. Sudan, Cuba, Vietnam) encounters an atmosphere for people to flee and leave and renounce their citizenship, as refugees, asylum seekers, or immigrant workers, then that nation is losing their #1 most valuable resource. Does not your country depend on its citizens for wealth, peace, labor, and a future? By analogy, only by weak analogy, does a company depend upon subscribers for the same sorts of things. I'm just saying that if the bonds of marriage no longer mean much at all, and we're all tenants renting our homes, rather than lifelong spouses or landowners, then the value of loyalty and commitment is already diminished, so who cares if I cancel my Cable TV? https://youtu.be/V5DeDLI8_IM?si=S-t6z-zZpDviuoBM https://youtu.be/V5DeDLI8_IM?si=S-t6z-zZpDviuoBM