5 ms·

It's the flip side of every other employment possibility having such poor prospects. Do you spend 4 years getting a degree no one will hire for so you can bag g

by Kye 2y ago

It's the flip side of every other employment possibility having such poor prospects. Do you spend 4 years getting a degree no one will hire for so you can bag groceries to pay off debt, or do you bag groceries to live while trying to break through as a creator? For most people, there aren't many options available. All the best opportunities are in cities no one can afford to live in anymore.

jollyllama 2y ago
Still, it's surprising that they can't even conceive of doing anything without profit motive as an incentive. This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of inter-generational dialogue. Perhaps Millennials and Gen-X are uniquely idealistic (or naïve) generations.
- Kye 2y ago
  Let's not confuse what they do for money with what they do for fun. For example: A lot of happy programmers can't conceive of doing it for fun: they log in, do a good job, log out, go tend to their sheep and work on their woodshed. You might not have the full picture of someone's life from a context-constrained conversation. There are things I'm good at that I tend to only want to do with a profit motive. I have plenty of unmonetized hobbies though.
  - jollyllama 2y ago
    > A lot of happy programmers can't conceive of doing it for fun I don't think that's true. I think even people who fit that description are aware of others who find it fun. I guess what I was saying is, it doesn't even occur to them that someone would do something absent any profit motive.
- JohnMakin 2y ago
  The "Hawk Tuah" girl is a perfect example to me. She had a funny moment, and I think 15-20 years ago it probably would have just been a funny meme for a few years and a "oh you're that girl from the meme" at parties for her entire 20's. Like that's exactly how that would have played out. Now she quit her job, has sponsorships, got a major podcast deal - over a single viral moment. It's nutty to me, personally, but people seem to see this as perfectly normal.
  - jollyllama 2y ago
    Interesting point. I'm not sure what her plan for her life was, but I could understand her making that decision if the rather explicit nature of her comments precluded it. Maybe she felt she had no choice but to own it.
  - doctorwho42 2y ago
    Anything to distract from the dystopia we live in. Ironically what you describe sounds like that season 1 of black mirror episode
  - Kye 2y ago
    15 years ago "Shit My Dad Says" got a TV show. People have spun momentary stardom into book deals and gigs forever. NYC, Hollywood, all the music cities past and present, and the last couple of SV booms were built on trying to generate it. "You're good at that, you should sell it" has been a constant refrain to creatives with any level of skill for decades. Some people went for it. The scale changed, and that's meaningful, but some kinds of people have always been on the lookout for a path to fortune.
  - jahewson 2y ago
    That was pretty much the situation with reality TV twenty years ago. Everyone was aghast that some random person could appear on a show and instead of being cast aside for our amusement at the end, they were able to build a personal brand and get a career out of it. It’s predators all the way down.
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    I watched her podcast and some interviews, and it's clear that, while not the most educated person, she exudes charisma and has a relatable sense of humor. She seems like a natural entertainer. As for education, she's from the south and her mom is an absent drug addict so I give her a pass (I have the same background and it is extraordinarily difficult) I think she's a special case, and she'll prove that over time. I'm happy someone in her position got a chance to share her personality with the world. Wishing her the best.
- jmb99 2y ago
  >Still, it's surprising that they can't even conceive of doing anything without profit motive as an incentive. Realistically, what percentage of the workforce in any field would continue working if they stopped getting paid (or took a 75% pay cut)? 1%? 0.1%? The reason people work is to make money that they can spend on the things they need to live, and hopefully have some left over for the things they enjoy. I love programming, building hardware, tinkering, etc in my spare time (as one of my hobbies), and I'm employed as an embedded engineer. I like my work. If my company stopped paying me, I would be looking for a new job immediately. Does that mean I don't enjoy my work? No, I just have this job to make money so that I can afford to live and do all of the things I enjoy. I would argue that yes, people who believe people should enjoy their work without a "profit motive" are naive, or at least sufficiently wealthy to forget what it's like to rely on income from employment.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
I always struggle to understand this sentiment. There seems to be a huge labor shortage, particularly for physical and skilled labor. Auto mechanics change 120/hr for labor, someone recently quoted me 40k to spend a week landscaping my residential back yard, and an arborist wanted 3k for a single day of chainsaw work pruning a big tree.
- DowagerDave 2y ago
  none of those things are accessible to someone who has say, a 4-yr fine arts degree. They're also extremes and not typical, unless your car is at the dealer, your backyard is on a make-over show, or that tree is hanging over your house & powerlines
  - Kye 2y ago
    Yep. Once you have any level of education past high school, lots of the better jobs just won't hire you. They assume you're biding your time until a better job comes by and any time or money spent training you will be wasted. The "labor shortage" is a fantasy created by people with jobs to offer having unrealistic expectations.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Surely someone with a college degree that wants to be a plumber can simply not disclose their degree?
      - Kye 2y ago
        Oh, they'll know. All that book learnin' changes you. With life and experience and life experience, you can stop coming off as a stuck-up out of touch asshole to people doing this kind of work. My entire generation got endless refrains of the message that these are the kinds of jobs you fail into if you don't get a degree. That doesn't break easily. It seems like the next crowd gets similar messages.
bongodongobob 2y ago
You bag groceries and spend your time looking to break through in the industry your degree is in. You are infinitely more likely to be successful finding a real job than wasting your time and energy hoping to win the influencer lottery. If you wanted to be a content creator what the hell did you get a degree for?

by Kye 2y ago

jollyllama 2y ago

Still, it's surprising that they can't even conceive of doing anything without profit motive as an incentive. This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of inter-generational dialogue. Perhaps Millennials and Gen-X are uniquely idealistic (or naïve) generations.

Kye 2y ago
Let's not confuse what they do for money with what they do for fun. For example: A lot of happy programmers can't conceive of doing it for fun: they log in, do a good job, log out, go tend to their sheep and work on their woodshed. You might not have the full picture of someone's life from a context-constrained conversation. There are things I'm good at that I tend to only want to do with a profit motive. I have plenty of unmonetized hobbies though.
- jollyllama 2y ago
  > A lot of happy programmers can't conceive of doing it for fun I don't think that's true. I think even people who fit that description are aware of others who find it fun. I guess what I was saying is, it doesn't even occur to them that someone would do something absent any profit motive.
JohnMakin 2y ago
The "Hawk Tuah" girl is a perfect example to me. She had a funny moment, and I think 15-20 years ago it probably would have just been a funny meme for a few years and a "oh you're that girl from the meme" at parties for her entire 20's. Like that's exactly how that would have played out. Now she quit her job, has sponsorships, got a major podcast deal - over a single viral moment. It's nutty to me, personally, but people seem to see this as perfectly normal.
- jollyllama 2y ago
  Interesting point. I'm not sure what her plan for her life was, but I could understand her making that decision if the rather explicit nature of her comments precluded it. Maybe she felt she had no choice but to own it.
- doctorwho42 2y ago
  Anything to distract from the dystopia we live in. Ironically what you describe sounds like that season 1 of black mirror episode
- Kye 2y ago
  15 years ago "Shit My Dad Says" got a TV show. People have spun momentary stardom into book deals and gigs forever. NYC, Hollywood, all the music cities past and present, and the last couple of SV booms were built on trying to generate it. "You're good at that, you should sell it" has been a constant refrain to creatives with any level of skill for decades. Some people went for it. The scale changed, and that's meaningful, but some kinds of people have always been on the lookout for a path to fortune.
- jahewson 2y ago
  That was pretty much the situation with reality TV twenty years ago. Everyone was aghast that some random person could appear on a show and instead of being cast aside for our amusement at the end, they were able to build a personal brand and get a career out of it. It’s predators all the way down.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  I watched her podcast and some interviews, and it's clear that, while not the most educated person, she exudes charisma and has a relatable sense of humor. She seems like a natural entertainer. As for education, she's from the south and her mom is an absent drug addict so I give her a pass (I have the same background and it is extraordinarily difficult) I think she's a special case, and she'll prove that over time. I'm happy someone in her position got a chance to share her personality with the world. Wishing her the best.
jmb99 2y ago
>Still, it's surprising that they can't even conceive of doing anything without profit motive as an incentive. Realistically, what percentage of the workforce in any field would continue working if they stopped getting paid (or took a 75% pay cut)? 1%? 0.1%? The reason people work is to make money that they can spend on the things they need to live, and hopefully have some left over for the things they enjoy. I love programming, building hardware, tinkering, etc in my spare time (as one of my hobbies), and I'm employed as an embedded engineer. I like my work. If my company stopped paying me, I would be looking for a new job immediately. Does that mean I don't enjoy my work? No, I just have this job to make money so that I can afford to live and do all of the things I enjoy. I would argue that yes, people who believe people should enjoy their work without a "profit motive" are naive, or at least sufficiently wealthy to forget what it's like to rely on income from employment.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

I always struggle to understand this sentiment. There seems to be a huge labor shortage, particularly for physical and skilled labor. Auto mechanics change 120/hr for labor, someone recently quoted me 40k to spend a week landscaping my residential back yard, and an arborist wanted 3k for a single day of chainsaw work pruning a big tree.

DowagerDave 2y ago
none of those things are accessible to someone who has say, a 4-yr fine arts degree. They're also extremes and not typical, unless your car is at the dealer, your backyard is on a make-over show, or that tree is hanging over your house & powerlines
- Kye 2y ago
  Yep. Once you have any level of education past high school, lots of the better jobs just won't hire you. They assume you're biding your time until a better job comes by and any time or money spent training you will be wasted. The "labor shortage" is a fantasy created by people with jobs to offer having unrealistic expectations.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Surely someone with a college degree that wants to be a plumber can simply not disclose their degree?
    - Kye 2y ago
      Oh, they'll know. All that book learnin' changes you. With life and experience and life experience, you can stop coming off as a stuck-up out of touch asshole to people doing this kind of work. My entire generation got endless refrains of the message that these are the kinds of jobs you fail into if you don't get a degree. That doesn't break easily. It seems like the next crowd gets similar messages.

bongodongobob 2y ago

You bag groceries and spend your time looking to break through in the industry your degree is in. You are infinitely more likely to be successful finding a real job than wasting your time and energy hoping to win the influencer lottery. If you wanted to be a content creator what the hell did you get a degree for?