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> particularly for white collar crimes like this This is why it's a hard pill to swallow. In the worst case, unprecedented matter, this white-collar crime gets

> particularly for white collar crimes like this This is why it's a hard pill to swallow. In the worst case, unprecedented matter, this white-collar crime gets 2 years. People, particularly poor and often black Americans, have gotten 20+ years for possession. It stings. We're trying to go back and remedy some of those absurd punishments but still, there is a stark and obvious unfairness here. And that sucks. All we can hope is that, going forward, we treat our more vulnerable groups with more dignity. But I agree, she shouldn't face harsher punishment.

thegrim33 2y ago
> particularly poor and often black Americans, have gotten 20+ years for possession. Just wanted to point out how insincere/misleading of a statement that is. People in those "locked up for 20 years for drugs" circumstances universally all have decade long felonious records, have committed umpteen crimes, time after time after time, are on probation with strict requirements to not be involved in illegal activities, get yet another drug charge, and are finally given a harsh sentence after being given light sentences the last dozen times in a row. You present it as "this normal, law abiding citizen, was caught with some drugs and just thrown in jail for 20 years". Which is demonstrably not the case and is intentionally leaving out all the other details, which is really manipulative. You also leave out that the vast, vast, majority of that group that are caught with drugs are NOT thrown in jail for 20 years.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > People in those "locked up for 20 years for drugs" circumstances universally all have decade long felonious records, have committed umpteen crimes, time after time after time, are on probation with strict requirements to not be involved in illegal activities, get yet another drug charge, and are finally given a harsh sentence after being given light sentences the last dozen times in a row. That's... not accurate. Yes, there are those people. And then there's Florida, and its two strike law. Which within hours of being enacted, caused a woman who was arrested for stealing a package of undershirts from Walmart to 15 years in prison - she had a couple of misdemeanor arrests prior. But if stealing underwear (and Walmart underwear, not La Perla) twice can get you 15 years jail, that's a long way from your "they all have decades of felonies, all have violated probation" absolutism. Another example was someone who was arrested for LSD possession after a Grateful Dead concert, released. Was arrested 3 years later for marijuana possession, put on probation. Several years later arrested for LSD possession, and federally sentenced to life in prison without parole at the age of 24, only being released after President Obama granted clemency just before his 50th birthday.
- consteval 2y ago
  > universally all have decade long felonious records Not true at all, it depends on the state. In the south with a history of unfair justice for black Americans and "tough on crime" standards, you have two strike or three strike systems. And not just for felonies! And this doesn't even touch on perpetual imprisonment laws, which have a long history dating back to Jim Crow post-reconstruction south. > are NOT thrown in jail for 20 years The best way to not be thrown in jail for drug charges is to be white, lol. These laws are thinly veiled discrimination machines. It's not a coincidence that the drugs with the most iron hammer happen to be the drugs black Americans frequent. Again, this is changing now. We don't do this anymore. But go back to the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s and this was very prolific, particularly in the south.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
> This is why it's a hard pill to swallow. In the worst case, unprecedented matter, this white-collar crime gets 2 years. > People, particularly poor and often black Americans, have gotten 20+ years for possession. But why does Ellison need to get extra time because poor/black Americans have been treated unfairly? Fix the injustice at the root rather than "fixing" it by treating everybody equally unfairly.
- consteval 2y ago
  I never said she did, I said that's why this is a hard pill to swallow. Unfairness sucks, and it's unreasonable to expect people to not get upset at unfairness. Obviously, the fix needs to come from the other direction.

thegrim33 2y ago

> particularly poor and often black Americans, have gotten 20+ years for possession. Just wanted to point out how insincere/misleading of a statement that is. People in those "locked up for 20 years for drugs" circumstances universally all have decade long felonious records, have committed umpteen crimes, time after time after time, are on probation with strict requirements to not be involved in illegal activities, get yet another drug charge, and are finally given a harsh sentence after being given light sentences the last dozen times in a row. You present it as "this normal, law abiding citizen, was caught with some drugs and just thrown in jail for 20 years". Which is demonstrably not the case and is intentionally leaving out all the other details, which is really manipulative. You also leave out that the vast, vast, majority of that group that are caught with drugs are NOT thrown in jail for 20 years.

FireBeyond 2y ago
> People in those "locked up for 20 years for drugs" circumstances universally all have decade long felonious records, have committed umpteen crimes, time after time after time, are on probation with strict requirements to not be involved in illegal activities, get yet another drug charge, and are finally given a harsh sentence after being given light sentences the last dozen times in a row. That's... not accurate. Yes, there are those people. And then there's Florida, and its two strike law. Which within hours of being enacted, caused a woman who was arrested for stealing a package of undershirts from Walmart to 15 years in prison - she had a couple of misdemeanor arrests prior. But if stealing underwear (and Walmart underwear, not La Perla) twice can get you 15 years jail, that's a long way from your "they all have decades of felonies, all have violated probation" absolutism. Another example was someone who was arrested for LSD possession after a Grateful Dead concert, released. Was arrested 3 years later for marijuana possession, put on probation. Several years later arrested for LSD possession, and federally sentenced to life in prison without parole at the age of 24, only being released after President Obama granted clemency just before his 50th birthday.
consteval 2y ago
> universally all have decade long felonious records Not true at all, it depends on the state. In the south with a history of unfair justice for black Americans and "tough on crime" standards, you have two strike or three strike systems. And not just for felonies! And this doesn't even touch on perpetual imprisonment laws, which have a long history dating back to Jim Crow post-reconstruction south. > are NOT thrown in jail for 20 years The best way to not be thrown in jail for drug charges is to be white, lol. These laws are thinly veiled discrimination machines. It's not a coincidence that the drugs with the most iron hammer happen to be the drugs black Americans frequent. Again, this is changing now. We don't do this anymore. But go back to the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s and this was very prolific, particularly in the south.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

> This is why it's a hard pill to swallow. In the worst case, unprecedented matter, this white-collar crime gets 2 years. > People, particularly poor and often black Americans, have gotten 20+ years for possession. But why does Ellison need to get extra time because poor/black Americans have been treated unfairly? Fix the injustice at the root rather than "fixing" it by treating everybody equally unfairly.

consteval 2y ago
I never said she did, I said that's why this is a hard pill to swallow. Unfairness sucks, and it's unreasonable to expect people to not get upset at unfairness. Obviously, the fix needs to come from the other direction.