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Here in Ireland, I noticed that most of the "main" network public chargers are on Google Maps now, and for some of them they even show the list of connector opt

by beAbU 2y ago

Here in Ireland, I noticed that most of the "main" network public chargers are on Google Maps now, and for some of them they even show the list of connector options, number of points, and whether they are currently in use or not. They don't have costs, but I can't imagine it being that long before that information is also included. ESB, which is the largest (and cheapest) network is the most information complete. Combine this with Google Maps' existing rate + review features, ability to upload pictures and all that, I can see how this will very quickly make other 3rd party services like plugshare or similar superfluous. On a recent 800km road trip I just used Google Maps to find charging points along my route that was already planned on there. I tried using other services like ABRP or EVNavigation and found all of them pretty lacking. Ireland is probably not representative of the rest of the world. It's very small, so with my Kona EV and it's 450km range, I can basically go anywhere with minimal stops for charging. Most of the bigger towns have at least one 50kw charger, and they are rolling out 100/200kw chargers at these locations now as well. There just is no need to have a detailed route planned out with battery SOC estimates and consumption and all that, and with charge points on Google Maps I feel we are very close to ICE convenience. I just drive, and when I'm a little low on charge I search on GMaps for a charger location, drive there, plug in, empty my bladder, get a snack, and then continue on my trip again. The vast majority of my charging takes place at home though, so the above only applies when I am travelling further than 200km from home. Home charging provides access to more than 60% of the country I feel.

fiftyfifty 2y ago
This pretty much reflects what we get in the US as well. Obviously with the size of the US we have a ways to go before we get to ICE level of coverage but it has gotten much better the last 2-3 years. The only thing Google maps lacks over say the Tesla app is being able to see how many chargers are available at a station. I’ve changed my trip a little bit a few times when it’s clear one station is a lot busier than another one that might be 20 miles down the road.
- dheera 2y ago
  I once arrived at a Tesla supercharger that was full and there were Teslas lining up, but there were 4 CCS high speed DC chargers right next to them and not a single one was taken. Thankfully I had the adapter and just used one of them. Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in though, and you usually have to try 3 times to get the charger-vehicle-payment dance to work.
  - iphoneisbetter 2y ago
    Interesting. What charging network were you using out of curiosity? I've never had any issue with Charge Points beyond the initial account and payment setup. I've used my NACS-CCS adapter dozens of times now mostly at hotels when I charge overnight.
    - dheera 2y ago
      ChargePoint is usually fine. I've rarely had problems except in rare cases where the cables were cut, presumably by some MAGA person. EVgo and Electrify America routinely fail at the payment-charging stage for me. The Tesla is expecting to get charge as soon as it is plugged in; the charger on the other hand wants me to plug in BEFORE payment, and payment takes FOREVER by the time I open the app, inevitably have to re-log-in (for some reason ChargePoint keeps me log in but the others routinely log me out), forget my password, reset my password, then locate the goddamn charger stall ID zooming in from a map of the US and then have to search some stupid IKEA-like name of the actual charge station. By the time I finish this the car has already given up and when the charger catches up to telling the car "hey I have charge now", it's too late. The real workflow should be either (a) tap a EMV credit card, approved, THEN plug in, no app needed OR (b) scan a QR code, Google/Apple Pay, THEN plug in, no login needed The charger should facilitate immediately delivering charge as soon as it's plugged in to the car.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    > Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in The connectors themselves aren't usually the cause for the perceived difficulty of plugging in. It's instead the weight and flexibility of the cable. Try this: plug in a CCS connector at Electrify America, and then plug in a CCS connector at ChargePoint. The latter feels much heavier than the former. Yet both are CCS connectors. Even though the former is rated for 350kW and the latter usually only 125kW. The CCS connector itself doesn't dictate what kind of cables manufacturers use and what kind of cooling. Tesla designs cables with less cooling and they replace them more often; other brands want long-lasting cables with fewer field visits so they add more cooling. And some brands use liquid cooled cables, others simply opt for thicker copper without liquid cooling. All of these have nothing to do with the connector.
- beAbU 2y ago
  > being able to see how many chargers are available at a station Google Maps has this information for the ESB network in Ireland. It even shows which connections are currently being used, and which are out of order. Next step is to show information on the current in-use plugs, like when the session started. On the ESB app this information is available and it helps to estimate when a point might become available, if there is congestion.
dheera 2y ago
As an EV owner, another issue I find is that there are a discomfortingly large number of chargers that are "for customers only" or that require you to pay for parking just to charge. This is a massive UX issue. With gas cars you can use any gas station you want and you don't have to pay additional fees other than the gas.
- pdabbadabba 2y ago
  Interesting. Where do you run into this? I've never encountered it in the U.S (east coast). If you're in Europe, maybe this is a concerning glimpse of where we're heading in the U.S. Although I think a charger with those restrictions would be ineligible for U.S. National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure ("NEVI") funds, so maybe we can hope that there is a strong enough disincentive for now?
  - vonmoltke 2y ago
    Here in northern New Jersey there are many chargers that are inside municipal parking garages. Since you have to pay to enter (technically, to leave) you have to pay for parking time to use those chargers. That's obviously not an issue if you would be parking there anyway, but if you lived in the area and just wanted or needed to use the charger you'd have to pay an additional $1 - $2 per hour on top of the charges from the charger. I'm not sure what the state of the chargers being installed at local businesses is. My local grocery store has four chargers now, but I don't recall seeing any signage about them being for customers only. They share the parking lot with the church across the street, though, so that may complicate things.
- michaelmior 2y ago
  > This is a massive UX issue I don't see what would really motivate businesses to change their mind on this. Since the barrier to entry for an EV charging station is many orders of magnitude lower than a gas station, it's pretty easy for a business to just add one in to an existing parking spot as an extra revenue stream or another way to draw customers. But they might reasonably value having available parking for customers over the revenue they get from EV charging. I things will probably move more in this direction as EVs become more popular and the average customer is more likely to drive one.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
entropyie 2y ago
Ireland is the ideal country for EVs, with our temperate climate and small size. We also don't have a large fossil fuel resource. We got government grants to install a home charger. Quick and easy. There are many public charges points but in the last 6 months I have noticed much more contention and have to wait frequently. Also more broken chargers. Sign of increased adoption I guess... But if we can't make it work here, I won't work anywhere.

by beAbU 2y ago

fiftyfifty 2y ago

This pretty much reflects what we get in the US as well. Obviously with the size of the US we have a ways to go before we get to ICE level of coverage but it has gotten much better the last 2-3 years. The only thing Google maps lacks over say the Tesla app is being able to see how many chargers are available at a station. I’ve changed my trip a little bit a few times when it’s clear one station is a lot busier than another one that might be 20 miles down the road.

dheera 2y ago
I once arrived at a Tesla supercharger that was full and there were Teslas lining up, but there were 4 CCS high speed DC chargers right next to them and not a single one was taken. Thankfully I had the adapter and just used one of them. Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in though, and you usually have to try 3 times to get the charger-vehicle-payment dance to work.
- iphoneisbetter 2y ago
  Interesting. What charging network were you using out of curiosity? I've never had any issue with Charge Points beyond the initial account and payment setup. I've used my NACS-CCS adapter dozens of times now mostly at hotels when I charge overnight.
  - dheera 2y ago
    ChargePoint is usually fine. I've rarely had problems except in rare cases where the cables were cut, presumably by some MAGA person. EVgo and Electrify America routinely fail at the payment-charging stage for me. The Tesla is expecting to get charge as soon as it is plugged in; the charger on the other hand wants me to plug in BEFORE payment, and payment takes FOREVER by the time I open the app, inevitably have to re-log-in (for some reason ChargePoint keeps me log in but the others routinely log me out), forget my password, reset my password, then locate the goddamn charger stall ID zooming in from a map of the US and then have to search some stupid IKEA-like name of the actual charge station. By the time I finish this the car has already given up and when the charger catches up to telling the car "hey I have charge now", it's too late. The real workflow should be either (a) tap a EMV credit card, approved, THEN plug in, no app needed OR (b) scan a QR code, Google/Apple Pay, THEN plug in, no login needed The charger should facilitate immediately delivering charge as soon as it's plugged in to the car.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  > Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in The connectors themselves aren't usually the cause for the perceived difficulty of plugging in. It's instead the weight and flexibility of the cable. Try this: plug in a CCS connector at Electrify America, and then plug in a CCS connector at ChargePoint. The latter feels much heavier than the former. Yet both are CCS connectors. Even though the former is rated for 350kW and the latter usually only 125kW. The CCS connector itself doesn't dictate what kind of cables manufacturers use and what kind of cooling. Tesla designs cables with less cooling and they replace them more often; other brands want long-lasting cables with fewer field visits so they add more cooling. And some brands use liquid cooled cables, others simply opt for thicker copper without liquid cooling. All of these have nothing to do with the connector.
beAbU 2y ago
> being able to see how many chargers are available at a station Google Maps has this information for the ESB network in Ireland. It even shows which connections are currently being used, and which are out of order. Next step is to show information on the current in-use plugs, like when the session started. On the ESB app this information is available and it helps to estimate when a point might become available, if there is congestion.

dheera 2y ago

As an EV owner, another issue I find is that there are a discomfortingly large number of chargers that are "for customers only" or that require you to pay for parking just to charge. This is a massive UX issue. With gas cars you can use any gas station you want and you don't have to pay additional fees other than the gas.

pdabbadabba 2y ago
Interesting. Where do you run into this? I've never encountered it in the U.S (east coast). If you're in Europe, maybe this is a concerning glimpse of where we're heading in the U.S. Although I think a charger with those restrictions would be ineligible for U.S. National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure ("NEVI") funds, so maybe we can hope that there is a strong enough disincentive for now?
- vonmoltke 2y ago
  Here in northern New Jersey there are many chargers that are inside municipal parking garages. Since you have to pay to enter (technically, to leave) you have to pay for parking time to use those chargers. That's obviously not an issue if you would be parking there anyway, but if you lived in the area and just wanted or needed to use the charger you'd have to pay an additional $1 - $2 per hour on top of the charges from the charger. I'm not sure what the state of the chargers being installed at local businesses is. My local grocery store has four chargers now, but I don't recall seeing any signage about them being for customers only. They share the parking lot with the church across the street, though, so that may complicate things.
michaelmior 2y ago
> This is a massive UX issue I don't see what would really motivate businesses to change their mind on this. Since the barrier to entry for an EV charging station is many orders of magnitude lower than a gas station, it's pretty easy for a business to just add one in to an existing parking spot as an extra revenue stream or another way to draw customers. But they might reasonably value having available parking for customers over the revenue they get from EV charging. I things will probably move more in this direction as EVs become more popular and the average customer is more likely to drive one.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

entropyie 2y ago

Ireland is the ideal country for EVs, with our temperate climate and small size. We also don't have a large fossil fuel resource. We got government grants to install a home charger. Quick and easy. There are many public charges points but in the last 6 months I have noticed much more contention and have to wait frequently. Also more broken chargers. Sign of increased adoption I guess... But if we can't make it work here, I won't work anywhere.