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> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not ar

by rdtsc 2y ago

> Even the victim’s family believes life without parole is the appropriate sentence That is odd, if there is no evidence that links him to the crime why not argue to let him go? Is that just from a desire to have someone punished, no matter who it is.

throwaway314155 2y ago
Grief is a powerful thing.
kergonath 2y ago
Unfortunately the victims or their relatives are not really the best suited to determine the appropriate punishment. These things are too subjective.
- rdtsc 2y ago
  I am assuming there is still some kind of logic behind the statement. How they interpret it for themselves.
DoughnutHole 2y ago
Presumably they still think he’s (probably) guilty. Victims and their family’s can and often do oppose capital punishment on moral grounds, same as anybody else. They want him punished but believe that killing him is a moral wrong, or they’re more comfortable with the risk that he’s innocent if he’s in prison with the possibility of being exonerated rather than killed.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  They who? About the only people who wanted the death penalty were politicians up for re-election.
shusaku 2y ago
As far as I could find reading about this case, the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy. But it’s a reasonable moral stand by the family to want to stay the execution if they think there is even a slim chance of innocence.
- rob74 2y ago
  If you read the article, the "evidence of guilt" is equally flimsy. And if we take "innocent until proven guilty" seriously, that means he not only should not have been executed, but should never have gone to jail in the first place...
  - sparrish 2y ago
    A jury of his peers thought there was enough evidence to convict him and they did. At that point, he's "guilty until proven innocent".
    - formerly_proven 2y ago
      This seems like an exceedingly bad hill to die on. Curtis Flowers was convicted and sentenced to death six times for the same murder by juries of his peers, yet he's a free man today.
      - concordDance 2y ago
        We don't have a better system at the moment, accepting its judgements is reasonable in light of that. And backseating when we're probably missing 90% of the evidence presented at court is unlikely to be any more accurate.
    - BobaFloutist 2y ago
      It's a bit circular when people say "This court decision is wrong" to argue "But this is the decision that was made."
- krisoft 2y ago
  > the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy “Evidence of innocence” is a very problematic concept. Have you thought through what is your evidence of your innocence? (Not just regarding to this case, but regarding all cases involving dead or missing people.) Should we execute you if you ever come up short?
knodi123 2y ago
There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. He pawned the victim's possessions. He was seen disposing of bloody clothes. He already had 15 felony convictions in addition to offenses related to Ms. Gayle's murder: robbery (2), armed criminal action (2), assault (2), burglary (4), stealing (3), stealing a motor vehicle, and unlawful use of a weapon. Now, as to whether this evidence is solid enough for a death penalty conviction, that's tougher to say. But there's plenty of evidence.
- JeremyNT 2y ago
  > There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he committed the murder while they were both locked up in jail. Cole directed police to Laura Asaro, a woman who had briefly dated Mr. Williams and had an extensive record of her own. > Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified.
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    Someone who is incarcerated snitching on someone who’s in there with them just screams “give me your cupcake or I’m gonna tell the cops you confessed to me”. Williams was also a person who was black and Muslim so prejudice alone could have been a motivation
    - kergonath 2y ago
      People say stupid things all the time as well. It’s not inconceivable to brag about something that’s not true either as an act of defiance or for social reasons such as to get some respect, look important, or to be left alone.
asveikau 2y ago
As I understand it, it's also extremely rare for a prosecutor to admit mistakes and that a convicted person is innocent, even when it is sufficiently proven, they tend to double down on bad convictions. In this case the prosecutor said the defendant didn't do it. Which makes this a very rare case.
chakintosh 2y ago
Probably so he could have a chance at freedom in case new evidence comes to light exonerating him. Can't really defend yourself if you're dead.
KenArrari 2y ago
Apparently the family believes that he is guilty but doesn't want him executed (but does want him in prison). In some countries the families wishes are enough to prevent an execution but not in the US.

by rdtsc 2y ago

throwaway314155 2y ago

Grief is a powerful thing.

kergonath 2y ago

Unfortunately the victims or their relatives are not really the best suited to determine the appropriate punishment. These things are too subjective.

rdtsc 2y ago
I am assuming there is still some kind of logic behind the statement. How they interpret it for themselves.

DoughnutHole 2y ago

Presumably they still think he’s (probably) guilty. Victims and their family’s can and often do oppose capital punishment on moral grounds, same as anybody else. They want him punished but believe that killing him is a moral wrong, or they’re more comfortable with the risk that he’s innocent if he’s in prison with the possibility of being exonerated rather than killed.

alistairSH 2y ago
They who? About the only people who wanted the death penalty were politicians up for re-election.

shusaku 2y ago

As far as I could find reading about this case, the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy. But it’s a reasonable moral stand by the family to want to stay the execution if they think there is even a slim chance of innocence.

rob74 2y ago
If you read the article, the "evidence of guilt" is equally flimsy. And if we take "innocent until proven guilty" seriously, that means he not only should not have been executed, but should never have gone to jail in the first place...
- sparrish 2y ago
  A jury of his peers thought there was enough evidence to convict him and they did. At that point, he's "guilty until proven innocent".
  - formerly_proven 2y ago
    This seems like an exceedingly bad hill to die on. Curtis Flowers was convicted and sentenced to death six times for the same murder by juries of his peers, yet he's a free man today.
    - concordDance 2y ago
      We don't have a better system at the moment, accepting its judgements is reasonable in light of that. And backseating when we're probably missing 90% of the evidence presented at court is unlikely to be any more accurate.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    It's a bit circular when people say "This court decision is wrong" to argue "But this is the decision that was made."
krisoft 2y ago
> the “evidence of innocence” is very flimsy “Evidence of innocence” is a very problematic concept. Have you thought through what is your evidence of your innocence? (Not just regarding to this case, but regarding all cases involving dead or missing people.) Should we execute you if you ever come up short?

knodi123 2y ago

There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. He pawned the victim's possessions. He was seen disposing of bloody clothes. He already had 15 felony convictions in addition to offenses related to Ms. Gayle's murder: robbery (2), armed criminal action (2), assault (2), burglary (4), stealing (3), stealing a motor vehicle, and unlawful use of a weapon. Now, as to whether this evidence is solid enough for a death penalty conviction, that's tougher to say. But there's plenty of evidence.

JeremyNT 2y ago
> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he committed the murder while they were both locked up in jail. Cole directed police to Laura Asaro, a woman who had briefly dated Mr. Williams and had an extensive record of her own. > Both of these individuals were known fabricators; neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police. Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified.
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  Someone who is incarcerated snitching on someone who’s in there with them just screams “give me your cupcake or I’m gonna tell the cops you confessed to me”. Williams was also a person who was black and Muslim so prejudice alone could have been a motivation
  - kergonath 2y ago
    People say stupid things all the time as well. It’s not inconceivable to brag about something that’s not true either as an act of defiance or for social reasons such as to get some respect, look important, or to be left alone.

asveikau 2y ago

As I understand it, it's also extremely rare for a prosecutor to admit mistakes and that a convicted person is innocent, even when it is sufficiently proven, they tend to double down on bad convictions. In this case the prosecutor said the defendant didn't do it. Which makes this a very rare case.

chakintosh 2y ago

Probably so he could have a chance at freedom in case new evidence comes to light exonerating him. Can't really defend yourself if you're dead.

KenArrari 2y ago

Apparently the family believes that he is guilty but doesn't want him executed (but does want him in prison). In some countries the families wishes are enough to prevent an execution but not in the US.