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Well, I think we need to do all of it. Explore space together or in competition, instead of war. And climate change is a concern for everyone.

by lukan 2y ago

arethuza 2y ago
Worth noting that the ESA Juice mission will be at Jupiter at the same time as Clipper and the teams are already working together: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/Frequently_Asked_Questions https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/...
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
We cannot do all of it. The money and the manpower does not exist to do all of it. We need to prioritize. Have you ever tried to survive in the wilderness? Shelter, water, fire, and food. Priorities. You would not spend your time trying to find out if there is a form of life 20 feet below you. Right now on earth there are plenty of people who do not have these basics.
- lukan 2y ago
  "Have you ever tried to survive in the wilderness? " Often enough. Quite succesful, even though I brought most basic supplies with me. So I know about basic needs. "Right now on earth there are plenty of people who do not have these basics." And there is a possibility, that this always will be the case. And I would not wait to find out and stop with all general progress till then. My compassion is with humanity as its whole, not with every single human. I fear, I have not limitless compassion and I don't see, how we can stop all wars just like that(the main reason for famine today - can you stop the Gaza war for instance?), but I see how little effort can be spend to finance such an interesting mission. Also, space exploration is a tool to bring humanity together.
- bastawhiz 2y ago
  > The money and the manpower does not exist to do all of it. No, they both exist. Motivation by your legislator is what doesn't exist. There's a reason some departments get almost everything they ask for and others get almost nothing: they know how to grease the political machine. That doesn't mean we should fight over scraps for science and social programs, it means you need to acknowledge that there's a game that needs playing. And yeah, it feels real bad that there are lives at stake playing that game, but that's the fault of capitalism, not science.
- weweersdfsd 2y ago
  The money does exist, and manpower isn't a problem considering how many people this planet has. The problem is the small monority that has most of the money, and doesn't like to pay their fair share of taxes. "As of late 2022, according to Snopes, 735 billionaires collectively possessed more wealth than the bottom half of U.S. households ($4.5 trillion and $4.1 trillion respectively). The top 1% held a total of $43.45 trillion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...
- XorNot 2y ago
  The US spends more per capita on healthcare, then similar first world nations spend providing public healthcare to all their citizens.[1] The US has the worst infant mortality, and maternal mortality rates, of any first world nation.[2] Just think of it: with the highest spend of GDP per citizen, and getting so much less you're the butt of every other country's jokes about healthcare systems. "Lack of money" has so little to do with the conditions in the US, it's essentially negligence to think it's the problem. The US doesn't want to fix any of the problems you list: it easily could, with the resources it has today. [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022 https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... [2] https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mortality-rates-despite-the-most-health-care-spending https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mor...
jajko 2y ago
Exactly, mankind has potentially amazing capacity to move into star working trekkish utopia within 1 century (not meaning warp fantasy but how society and individuals in it work). But so many stars would have to align, starting with dropping most religions and killing on spot most dictators that it won't happen. But we should aim high, higher than we think our potential is, to actually get somewhere.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  How about if we aim our compassion higher?
  - IggleSniggle 2y ago
    Aiming higher than the desire for all people to live in harmony with each other, with the freedom to pursue their needs and interests at the top of Maslow's pyramid without fear? Aiming higher than desiring peace for all mankind, where no one wants for anything, and those that are still struggling regardless receive help and compassion from their fellow humans? That seems like a tall order.
  - jajko 2y ago
    How do you force compassion on people? Religions tried for millennia and failed miserably, despite it being consistently among top rules in all of them. If something that cuts so deep can't win on its own 'just because I say so', I'd say lets move towards rationality, progress and smartness, with right eyes there lies tons of compassion too.

Well, I think we need to do all of it. Explore space together or in competition, instead of war. And climate change is a concern for everyone.

by lukan 2y ago

Well, I think we need to do all of it. Explore space together or in competition, instead of war. And climate change is a concern for everyone.

arethuza 2y ago

Worth noting that the ESA Juice mission will be at Jupiter at the same time as Clipper and the teams are already working together: https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/Frequently_Asked_Questions https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Juice/...

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

We cannot do all of it. The money and the manpower does not exist to do all of it. We need to prioritize. Have you ever tried to survive in the wilderness? Shelter, water, fire, and food. Priorities. You would not spend your time trying to find out if there is a form of life 20 feet below you. Right now on earth there are plenty of people who do not have these basics.

lukan 2y ago
"Have you ever tried to survive in the wilderness? " Often enough. Quite succesful, even though I brought most basic supplies with me. So I know about basic needs. "Right now on earth there are plenty of people who do not have these basics." And there is a possibility, that this always will be the case. And I would not wait to find out and stop with all general progress till then. My compassion is with humanity as its whole, not with every single human. I fear, I have not limitless compassion and I don't see, how we can stop all wars just like that(the main reason for famine today - can you stop the Gaza war for instance?), but I see how little effort can be spend to finance such an interesting mission. Also, space exploration is a tool to bring humanity together.
bastawhiz 2y ago
> The money and the manpower does not exist to do all of it. No, they both exist. Motivation by your legislator is what doesn't exist. There's a reason some departments get almost everything they ask for and others get almost nothing: they know how to grease the political machine. That doesn't mean we should fight over scraps for science and social programs, it means you need to acknowledge that there's a game that needs playing. And yeah, it feels real bad that there are lives at stake playing that game, but that's the fault of capitalism, not science.
weweersdfsd 2y ago
The money does exist, and manpower isn't a problem considering how many people this planet has. The problem is the small monority that has most of the money, and doesn't like to pay their fair share of taxes. "As of late 2022, according to Snopes, 735 billionaires collectively possessed more wealth than the bottom half of U.S. households ($4.5 trillion and $4.1 trillion respectively). The top 1% held a total of $43.45 trillion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...
XorNot 2y ago
The US spends more per capita on healthcare, then similar first world nations spend providing public healthcare to all their citizens.[1] The US has the worst infant mortality, and maternal mortality rates, of any first world nation.[2] Just think of it: with the highest spend of GDP per citizen, and getting so much less you're the butt of every other country's jokes about healthcare systems. "Lack of money" has so little to do with the conditions in the US, it's essentially negligence to think it's the problem. The US doesn't want to fix any of the problems you list: it easily could, with the resources it has today. [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022 https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... [2] https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mortality-rates-despite-the-most-health-care-spending https://www.ajmc.com/view/us-has-highest-infant-maternal-mor...

jajko 2y ago

Exactly, mankind has potentially amazing capacity to move into star working trekkish utopia within 1 century (not meaning warp fantasy but how society and individuals in it work). But so many stars would have to align, starting with dropping most religions and killing on spot most dictators that it won't happen. But we should aim high, higher than we think our potential is, to actually get somewhere.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
How about if we aim our compassion higher?
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  Aiming higher than the desire for all people to live in harmony with each other, with the freedom to pursue their needs and interests at the top of Maslow's pyramid without fear? Aiming higher than desiring peace for all mankind, where no one wants for anything, and those that are still struggling regardless receive help and compassion from their fellow humans? That seems like a tall order.
- jajko 2y ago
  How do you force compassion on people? Religions tried for millennia and failed miserably, despite it being consistently among top rules in all of them. If something that cuts so deep can't win on its own 'just because I say so', I'd say lets move towards rationality, progress and smartness, with right eyes there lies tons of compassion too.