4 ms·

The divisions are also interesting. You've typically got something like a group of 16 violins for the first section, then another group of 16 for the second se

The divisions are also interesting. You've typically got something like a group of 16 violins for the first section, then another group of 16 for the second section. Each section has a "1st chair" which is the violinist sitting at index 0. Typically the best players are at the lower indices. Violin[0][0] is the "concertmaster," who gets to come out to applause and then play an "a" at 440 Hertz to tune up the orchestra. When a part of the composition is marked "solo" in the score-- say, a challenging or lyrical melody to be played by a single violin-- the concertmaster is the one who plays it. As far as I know, there's no standard way for the composer to notate a solo for, say, violin[1][15] (or, to use a safer Javascript notation to cover cases of smaller orchestras, violin[-1]). Instead, the violins typically get divided in the score into groups of 2 or 4, or possibly more for modern compositions. I'm not a violinist, but I've always wondered about violin[0][1]-- first section second chair-- vs. violin[1][0]-- second section first chair. I think I'd rather be the latter and be in charge of the second section. Being second chair of the first section seems like you'd just end up envying all the solos that the concertmaster plays. (Edit: and also having to practice all those solos in case the concertmaster gets sick.)

tgv 2y ago
It’s quite common for the first oboe to play the tuning pitch. > As far as I know, there's no standard way for the composer to notate a solo for, say, violin[1][15] Because it doesn’t make sense. You don’t know who sits there. You just want the sound of a solo violin, and the first chairs have gotten to their position because they can deliver. There are all sorts of weird annotations in scores though, so if you think that one part sounds best when played from the last row, you can just say so in the score.
- hinkley 2y ago
  I saw a concert with a small regional orchestra recently. The first violin stood which triggered the tuning, but she did not join in playing until a handful of instruments were already in the chorus. I don’t know who started but I’m willing to believe it may have been the oboe.
  - gabrielmoshe 2y ago
    Tuning typically follows a little ritual, where (1) the concertmaster stands to indicate that tuning should begin, (2) the oboe gives the 440 Hz A tone, which by the way, they normally have an electronic tuner these days to help them nail that pitch, (3) the brass and winds tune off the oboe, (4) the concertmaster tunes her violin off the oboe, (5) the concertmaster plays the A for the strings, who tune their open A string off that note, (6) the strings tune their other three strings to their A, usually by ear. Source: Me, playing in amateur orchestras for twenty-plus years. Sidenote: I find the sound of an orchestra tuning to be a deep joy! All those instruments sliding into place is just delightful
    - iosonofuturista 2y ago
      Believe it or not... As a regular orquestral concert goer (I would say I average a concert a week per year at least) reading your description of the tuning process gave me goosebumps. It really is one of the best sounds on the world! The tension! The anticipation! And then seeing and hearing a well rehearsed group of people move from casual conversation mode into serious business mode in a few seconds. And from chaos comes order. And then the silence, only broken by the applause when the maestro and soloist(s) arrive. One of life's biggest pleasures if I may say so.
      - madcaptenor 2y ago
        I don't know if this is true - might just be a joke - but I've heard stories of people unfamiliar with Western classical music going to concerts and telling the people who brought them that they liked the "first part" of the music, their hosts thinking they meant the first movement or the piece that was played first, but they actually meant the tuning. See e.g. https://silpayamanant.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/if-you-appreciate-the-tuning-so-much-i-hope-youll-enjoy-the-music-more/ https://silpayamanant.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/if-you-apprec.... It seems like the story is usually told about an "Indian musician" and something similar happened in reverse at a Ravi Shankar concert, where the Western audience applauded after he tuned.
    - 4ggr0 2y ago
BlindEyeHalo 2y ago
Some notes here. The concertmaster is the leader of the orchestra (the conductor is not a member of the orchestra and good orchestras typically work with many different conductors) so they will usually decide or advice the conductor who is best suited to play a particular solo. That the most experienced/best player sits at chair 1 of a section is just a convention that was established over time but not a hard requirement. > As far as I know, there's no standard way for the composer to notate a solo for, say, violin[1][15] Because the composer doesn't notate who plays what. The performers decide this. Writing "Solo played by violin[1][15]" makes as much sense as writing "Solo played by Tim from accounting". I have seen orchestras rotate the solo part through the different nights to give more people a chance to play it but that was an amateur performance and is rare for professional orchestras that rely on perfect deliveries.
VMG 2y ago
> (or, to use a safer Javascript notation to cover cases of smaller orchestras, violin[-1]). I believe you either meant `Python notation` or `violin.at(-1)` with https://github.com/tc39/proposal-relative-indexing-method https://github.com/tc39/proposal-relative-indexing-method
sirspacey 2y ago
I’ve been both concertmaster and second chair in younger orchestras. They both are great roles but very different. Concertmaster has a similar level of pressure to the conductor. You’ve got more attention on you and the audience takes more queues from how you play, so you’re a kind of soloist all the time. Many violinist prefer not to be directly in the spotlight all the time so, while there is competition for the role, generally there’s some relief knowing you can count on the best player to lead. The concertmaster is also the right hand of the conductor. Thats why they come out just beforehand and tune the orchestra. They will also remind the orchestra with subtle queues on any recent instructions from the conductor, especially on pace/timing. If there are soloists performing, the concertmaster works extra closely with them (often including more practice sessions). Once the hierarchy is settled generally the envy dies down, though inevitably there’s politics as others in the orchestra have their own opinions on who is best/who should lead. A second chair does need to be able to step up if the concertmaster gets sick. The surprise factor here is definitely challenging but, having played first chair a few times because of it, I had fun getting the spotlight and the opportunity to audition for the future first chair role through my performance. Concertmaster is similar to a lot of leadership demands - you both have to be an outlier top tier in individual performance and perceived as a good leader by the rest of the orchestra. Other instruments already feel violins get all the attention and that violinists are oblivious to the privilege, so it goes a long way to demonstrate your respect and support for the other first chairs. I personally found a strong relationship with the first chair cellos was key. I did play a piece where parts of a solos were distributed throughout the orchestra. We all had a lot of fun with that, quite the challenge to make it feel seamless. Dvorak and Brahms both used the mechanic to create unique instrumental voicing.
tzs 2y ago
> [...] play an "a" at 440 Hertz to tune up the orchestra I was curious why A? The most common reason that turned up in search was that every string instrument in an orchestra has an A string. That makes sense, since bowed string instruments need one hand for the bow and one hand to press the string to the fingerboard for any note that isn't being played on an open string. That doesn't fully explain it though because they also all have G and D strings. One explanation said that it is because A is the highest open string pitch they have in common. Higher pitches are easier to hear in a group.

tgv 2y ago

It’s quite common for the first oboe to play the tuning pitch. > As far as I know, there's no standard way for the composer to notate a solo for, say, violin[1][15] Because it doesn’t make sense. You don’t know who sits there. You just want the sound of a solo violin, and the first chairs have gotten to their position because they can deliver. There are all sorts of weird annotations in scores though, so if you think that one part sounds best when played from the last row, you can just say so in the score.

hinkley 2y ago
I saw a concert with a small regional orchestra recently. The first violin stood which triggered the tuning, but she did not join in playing until a handful of instruments were already in the chorus. I don’t know who started but I’m willing to believe it may have been the oboe.
- gabrielmoshe 2y ago
  Tuning typically follows a little ritual, where (1) the concertmaster stands to indicate that tuning should begin, (2) the oboe gives the 440 Hz A tone, which by the way, they normally have an electronic tuner these days to help them nail that pitch, (3) the brass and winds tune off the oboe, (4) the concertmaster tunes her violin off the oboe, (5) the concertmaster plays the A for the strings, who tune their open A string off that note, (6) the strings tune their other three strings to their A, usually by ear. Source: Me, playing in amateur orchestras for twenty-plus years. Sidenote: I find the sound of an orchestra tuning to be a deep joy! All those instruments sliding into place is just delightful
  - iosonofuturista 2y ago
    Believe it or not... As a regular orquestral concert goer (I would say I average a concert a week per year at least) reading your description of the tuning process gave me goosebumps. It really is one of the best sounds on the world! The tension! The anticipation! And then seeing and hearing a well rehearsed group of people move from casual conversation mode into serious business mode in a few seconds. And from chaos comes order. And then the silence, only broken by the applause when the maestro and soloist(s) arrive. One of life's biggest pleasures if I may say so.
    - madcaptenor 2y ago
      I don't know if this is true - might just be a joke - but I've heard stories of people unfamiliar with Western classical music going to concerts and telling the people who brought them that they liked the "first part" of the music, their hosts thinking they meant the first movement or the piece that was played first, but they actually meant the tuning. See e.g. https://silpayamanant.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/if-you-appreciate-the-tuning-so-much-i-hope-youll-enjoy-the-music-more/ https://silpayamanant.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/if-you-apprec.... It seems like the story is usually told about an "Indian musician" and something similar happened in reverse at a Ravi Shankar concert, where the Western audience applauded after he tuned.
  - 4ggr0 2y ago

BlindEyeHalo 2y ago

Some notes here. The concertmaster is the leader of the orchestra (the conductor is not a member of the orchestra and good orchestras typically work with many different conductors) so they will usually decide or advice the conductor who is best suited to play a particular solo. That the most experienced/best player sits at chair 1 of a section is just a convention that was established over time but not a hard requirement. > As far as I know, there's no standard way for the composer to notate a solo for, say, violin[1][15] Because the composer doesn't notate who plays what. The performers decide this. Writing "Solo played by violin[1][15]" makes as much sense as writing "Solo played by Tim from accounting". I have seen orchestras rotate the solo part through the different nights to give more people a chance to play it but that was an amateur performance and is rare for professional orchestras that rely on perfect deliveries.

VMG 2y ago

> (or, to use a safer Javascript notation to cover cases of smaller orchestras, violin[-1]). I believe you either meant `Python notation` or `violin.at(-1)` with https://github.com/tc39/proposal-relative-indexing-method https://github.com/tc39/proposal-relative-indexing-method

sirspacey 2y ago

I’ve been both concertmaster and second chair in younger orchestras. They both are great roles but very different. Concertmaster has a similar level of pressure to the conductor. You’ve got more attention on you and the audience takes more queues from how you play, so you’re a kind of soloist all the time. Many violinist prefer not to be directly in the spotlight all the time so, while there is competition for the role, generally there’s some relief knowing you can count on the best player to lead. The concertmaster is also the right hand of the conductor. Thats why they come out just beforehand and tune the orchestra. They will also remind the orchestra with subtle queues on any recent instructions from the conductor, especially on pace/timing. If there are soloists performing, the concertmaster works extra closely with them (often including more practice sessions). Once the hierarchy is settled generally the envy dies down, though inevitably there’s politics as others in the orchestra have their own opinions on who is best/who should lead. A second chair does need to be able to step up if the concertmaster gets sick. The surprise factor here is definitely challenging but, having played first chair a few times because of it, I had fun getting the spotlight and the opportunity to audition for the future first chair role through my performance. Concertmaster is similar to a lot of leadership demands - you both have to be an outlier top tier in individual performance and perceived as a good leader by the rest of the orchestra. Other instruments already feel violins get all the attention and that violinists are oblivious to the privilege, so it goes a long way to demonstrate your respect and support for the other first chairs. I personally found a strong relationship with the first chair cellos was key. I did play a piece where parts of a solos were distributed throughout the orchestra. We all had a lot of fun with that, quite the challenge to make it feel seamless. Dvorak and Brahms both used the mechanic to create unique instrumental voicing.

tzs 2y ago

> [...] play an "a" at 440 Hertz to tune up the orchestra I was curious why A? The most common reason that turned up in search was that every string instrument in an orchestra has an A string. That makes sense, since bowed string instruments need one hand for the bow and one hand to press the string to the fingerboard for any note that isn't being played on an open string. That doesn't fully explain it though because they also all have G and D strings. One explanation said that it is because A is the highest open string pitch they have in common. Higher pitches are easier to hear in a group.