3 ms·

Aside: LWN is basically what ChatGPT summarization as advertised itself to be, except it's actually good and coherent and useful. I can trust Jonathan to summar

Aside: LWN is basically what ChatGPT summarization as advertised itself to be, except it's actually good and coherent and useful. I can trust Jonathan to summarize the conversation in a way that is mostly sane and reasonable in a way that I can never hand off the job to generative AI. It's an important area where humans seem to excel over computers. Also, just to have some content that is actually on-topic: is anyone actually shipping upstream Linux Rust code yet? I understand that some stuff is slowly merging in but I'm not sure if it's actually being exercised yet.

patmorgan23 2y ago
I believe the kernel graphics drivers for the Apple M1 are written in rust, and are upstreamed.
- rnrn 2y ago
  AFAIU the asahi rust gpu driver is shipping in asahi but not upstreamed yet (torvalds/linux.git doesn’t have drivers/gpu/drm/asahi)
- josefx 2y ago
  From what I understand those drivers currently cannot be merged since the devs. rewrote various kernel APIs to match their expectations.
  - steveklabnik 2y ago
    This is true in a literal sense, but there’s some nuance. They were working on upstreaming them, but there was some strong disagreement about one of the earlier patches and so at least for now they’ve given up. And that patch was pretty small, it’s not like a massive change was required.
rc00 2y ago
> I can trust Jonathan Given the clear bias in the writing and the coverage, how do you reconcile this? LWN isn't a news site staffed with reporters any more than Fox News is and it is much more closely defined by being a personal infoblog these days. Phoronix, Linuxiac, and DistroWatch are a few examples closer to actual news without trying to lead the reader. The Register, even with snark, is more representative of a news site these days. I used to be a fan of Jonathan and LWN but in recent times, he seems less interested in being a reporter and more interested in being a Rust evangelist. That isn't a source I can trust.
- greatquux 2y ago
  Jonathan is eminently reasonable. He just wants everyone to get along. He’s no more an evangelist for Rust than Linus is, who, you'll recall, is trying to make it work also.
  - rc00 2y ago
    That is factually misleading. Look at LWN's coverage since the recent controversy over a Rust developer quitting the project: 1. Rust-for-Linux developer Wedson Almeida Filho drops out - https://lwn.net/Articles/987635/ https://lwn.net/Articles/987635/ 2. Airlie: On Rust, Linux, developers, maintainers - https://lwn.net/Articles/987849/ https://lwn.net/Articles/987849/ LWN never once mentioned any blogs or opinions from kernel developers or otherwise unless they were in support of Rust. There has also never been an article highlighting the very real challenges not only with Rust but also the attempt to integrate it into the Linux kernel project. Scroll the home page for recent articles and it's pretty evident where the bias exists. Meanwhile, The Register[3] cited at least Drew DeVault among others: 3. https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/02/rust_for_linux_maintainer_steps_down/ https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/02/rust_for_linux_mainta... Yes, The Register wrote a more balanced article on the topic than LWN. > He’s no more an evangelist for Rust than Linus is Linus does not have a personal website where he is only publishing positive articles about Rust.
    - dralley 2y ago
      >Meanwhile, The Register[3] cited at least Drew DeVault among others: Drew DeVault is not anti-Rust-in-the-linux-kernel.
      - rc00 2y ago
        > Veteran developer Drew DeVault, founder and CEO of SourceHut and a critic of Rust in the Linux kernel > I am known to be a bit of a polemic when it comes to Rust > Rust will eventually fail to the “jack of all trades, master of none” problem that C++ has. Wise languages designers start small and stay small. Wise systems programmers extend this philosophy to designing entire systems, and Rust is probably not going to be invited. I understand that many people, particularly those already enamored with Rust, won’t agree with much of this article. But now you know why we are still writing C, and hopefully you’ll stop bloody bothering us about it. Do you have anything to support your statement?

patmorgan23 2y ago

I believe the kernel graphics drivers for the Apple M1 are written in rust, and are upstreamed.

rnrn 2y ago
AFAIU the asahi rust gpu driver is shipping in asahi but not upstreamed yet (torvalds/linux.git doesn’t have drivers/gpu/drm/asahi)
josefx 2y ago
From what I understand those drivers currently cannot be merged since the devs. rewrote various kernel APIs to match their expectations.
- steveklabnik 2y ago
  This is true in a literal sense, but there’s some nuance. They were working on upstreaming them, but there was some strong disagreement about one of the earlier patches and so at least for now they’ve given up. And that patch was pretty small, it’s not like a massive change was required.

rc00 2y ago

> I can trust Jonathan Given the clear bias in the writing and the coverage, how do you reconcile this? LWN isn't a news site staffed with reporters any more than Fox News is and it is much more closely defined by being a personal infoblog these days. Phoronix, Linuxiac, and DistroWatch are a few examples closer to actual news without trying to lead the reader. The Register, even with snark, is more representative of a news site these days. I used to be a fan of Jonathan and LWN but in recent times, he seems less interested in being a reporter and more interested in being a Rust evangelist. That isn't a source I can trust.

greatquux 2y ago
Jonathan is eminently reasonable. He just wants everyone to get along. He’s no more an evangelist for Rust than Linus is, who, you'll recall, is trying to make it work also.
- rc00 2y ago
  That is factually misleading. Look at LWN's coverage since the recent controversy over a Rust developer quitting the project: 1. Rust-for-Linux developer Wedson Almeida Filho drops out - https://lwn.net/Articles/987635/ https://lwn.net/Articles/987635/ 2. Airlie: On Rust, Linux, developers, maintainers - https://lwn.net/Articles/987849/ https://lwn.net/Articles/987849/ LWN never once mentioned any blogs or opinions from kernel developers or otherwise unless they were in support of Rust. There has also never been an article highlighting the very real challenges not only with Rust but also the attempt to integrate it into the Linux kernel project. Scroll the home page for recent articles and it's pretty evident where the bias exists. Meanwhile, The Register[3] cited at least Drew DeVault among others: 3. https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/02/rust_for_linux_maintainer_steps_down/ https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/02/rust_for_linux_mainta... Yes, The Register wrote a more balanced article on the topic than LWN. > He’s no more an evangelist for Rust than Linus is Linus does not have a personal website where he is only publishing positive articles about Rust.
  - dralley 2y ago
    >Meanwhile, The Register[3] cited at least Drew DeVault among others: Drew DeVault is not anti-Rust-in-the-linux-kernel.
    - rc00 2y ago
      > Veteran developer Drew DeVault, founder and CEO of SourceHut and a critic of Rust in the Linux kernel > I am known to be a bit of a polemic when it comes to Rust > Rust will eventually fail to the “jack of all trades, master of none” problem that C++ has. Wise languages designers start small and stay small. Wise systems programmers extend this philosophy to designing entire systems, and Rust is probably not going to be invited. I understand that many people, particularly those already enamored with Rust, won’t agree with much of this article. But now you know why we are still writing C, and hopefully you’ll stop bloody bothering us about it. Do you have anything to support your statement?