7 ms·
Hack GPON – how to access, change and edit fibre ONTs
- sylware 2y agoGPON has been such a bad idea... One fiber, One ISP port has always been the right way.
- jesprenj 2y agoI disagree. GPON is WAY cheaper to deploy.
- sylware 2y agoThe right way does not mean cheaper.
- cycomanic 2y agoWhy is one fibre (actually you'd probably like 2 for upstream and downstream) to one customer the way to go? Even with >100 customers on a single fibre it should be possible to get everyone on 100 Gbit/s (although there are currently no standards for it). That will future proof for a long time.
- sylware 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jiveturkey 2y agoIt's an interesting site but where's the 0xbeef? OK it explains how to telnet into some units but then what? How do I get the free HBO ser?
- abound 2y agoI'm only just digging into the site, but some ONT pages (ex [1]) have information on how to set low-level parameters (MAC, various equipment IDs, etc). Probably won't get you free HBO, more likely to get your ONT banned at your ISP, but maybe you'll get free internet before that. [1] https://hack-gpon.org/ont-nokia-g-010g-t/#gponomci-settings https://hack-gpon.org/ont-nokia-g-010g-t/#gponomci-settings
- bpye 2y agoThere are also folks that want to overwrite the MAC, serial, etc to clone their ISPs ONT - allowing them to use a different GPON/XGSPON ONT/SFP(+) module [0]. [0] https://pon.wiki/ https://pon.wiki/
- silotis 2y agoThis isn't about getting free internet, no competent ISP will let the link come up without a serial number registered with the port. This is about bypassing the awful gateway hardware many fiber ISPs mandate.
- Brian_K_White 2y agoThe point is to be able to use your own hardware, a fiber equivalent of buying your own cable modem and router.
- ezekielmudd 2y agoIt is my understanding that ISPs have management software that watches all the ONT activities. They will mark a rogue ONT as an “alien” and blacklist it.
- 1oooqooq 2y agonot to mention that its probably jail time in the USA if they want to go after you. All they have to do is to show a judge that you "hacked" their device with some hacker "jtags" to extract the very well protected passwords.
- greyface- 2y agoPeople have in fact done prison time for "uncapping" DOCSIS CPE (although I believe only in situations where they were making a commercial operation out of it). I love seeing sites like this, but if I were involved, I'd tread lightly around commercialization, advertising, taking donations, etc. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/oregon-man-sentenced-boston-36-months-prison-helping-thousands-steal-internet-service https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/oregon-man-sentenced-boston-3... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/hacking-cable-modems-for-fun-profit-jail-time/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/hacking-cable-mo...
- sulandor 2y agojailtime for a mouthful of internet is somewhat of a stretch
- appendix-rock 2y agoYes. Exactly.
- thayne 2y agoI assume that is why they have a page full of disclaimers before you get to any content.
- pabs3 2y agoBTW: in the EU there is movement towards mandating ISPs allow BYOD, including fibre ONTs. https://fsfe.org/activities/routers/ https://fsfe.org/activities/routers/
- vlabakje90 2y agoMandatory in the Netherlands, since last year.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- t0mas88 2y agoAnd as a result for example KPN (one of the largest fiber ISPs) has a document to tell you what to connect and with which specs: https://assets.ctfassets.net/zuadwp3l2xby/2Yp0HtLJPKBUX5mqr3l23a/936f91d56ff916c1f8f5c81d195bcd4f/20222263_KPN_Internet_Glasvezel_Specificaties_v20230123.pdf https://assets.ctfassets.net/zuadwp3l2xby/2Yp0HtLJPKBUX5mqr3... Some years ago there was only unofficial documentation even on the parts behind the ONT, like which VLAN carries internet and which one is IPTV etc. Now it's all officially documented and you can run your own modem, router and firewall if you want. I've left their ONT in place and plugged it directly into a Linux box that does the rest. Gives me more flexibility on things like IPv6 and easier to host local services without port forwarding through their modem.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoDo you know how this works contract wise? When you get network are you guaranteed that GPON will work or can they refuse service after a certain point in time and force you to upgrade to XGS-PON (or some other standard)?
- marceldegraaf 2y agoThe provider can upgrade their network from GPON to XGS-PON; in fact KPN (a large Dutch provider) does this regularly, especially in areas with new housing developments.
- justahuman74 2y agoBeing forced to used an ISPs fiber router can be frustrating, I hope we can get regulations to force BYO
- CharlesW 2y agoAre some ONTs routers? Mine (Calix GigaPoint GP1100X) is not.
- appendix-rock 2y agoI’m pretty sure that 95% of the positive responses to this thread are people that are conflating the two, and 4% are people overstating the utter importance of running your own ONT, conflating “it sounds fun for a select few mega-nerds and we should regulate for that” with “meaningful consumer choice”.
- jeroenhd 2y agoYes. Several ISPs I've used sent out routers with integrated fiber connectors, no separate ONT. Their routers weren't terrible enough for me to want to replace them immediately, but not everybody gets a ONT+router combo from their ISP. I think it's often more a "router with ONT built in" rather than an "ONT with router built in".
- microtonal 2y agoThis can be a good stopgap, but the solution is to lobby for a law that mandates free ONT/modem/router choice. We have such legislation in NL and the ISP is required to make it possible to use your own equipment. Coincidentally, I had my ISP register my Fritz!Box Fiber 5590 as my ONT yesterday, so I have it directly hooked up to XGS-PON with their SFP+ module (no more Genexis ONT \o/).
- sulandor 2y ago> I had my ISP register my Fritz!Box Fiber 5590 as my ONT yesterday what did registration entail and how long did it take?
- t0mas88 2y agoAlso NL here, my provider has a self service online form for it. Takes only a few minutes.
- microtonal 2y agoThere is a self-service form where they call you back to confirm. However, they had issues with entering my ONT's ID in the system. I am also subscribed to extra support. It's 5 Euro per month extra, but you skip all the queues and get directly connected to someone who knows all the technical stuff. With them it's basically giving them your ONT ID over the phone and they immediately set it for you (and they stay on the line until it's confirmed on both sides that it works). I will just call them again after the FRITZ!Box 5690 XGS comes out.
- tootie 2y agoWhy? Is there an advantage to using your own ONT? Is it just a personal freedom thing or are there features you can unlock?
- aidenn0 2y agoI'm not on PON, but on DOCSIS cable, the advantage to using my own modem is: 1. When it breaks, I don't have to wait for weeks for the cable company to send someone to replace it. I just keep a spare on my shelf and can be back up in minutes. 2. Cost: buying my own pays for itself in 6 months. 3. Disintegration: This is more recent, but I've heard from neighbors that the cable company lately doesn't want to rent a modem, only an integrated WAP/router/modem.
- theideaofcoffee 2y agoGPON is one of those technologies that should have been drowned in the bath before the spec even made it out of its ITU committee. It's just yet another patch papering over how cheap the ISPs were and how they continue to be. Yes, let's add another layer on top of all of the other layers. Now however many millions of links out to subscribers are hamstrung with that decision to split the physical layer up and throw in nonsensical TDM into the mix as well. Good luck squeezing much out beyond 25g in the future, you're just gonna have to rip all of that fiber up anyway and do home runs. Might as well have done it up front with all of the billions that have been given away to the littly piggy piggy ISPs. I made a comment a few days ago about how I despair when I see anything modern datacenter related. I get the same sort of revulsion when I look at the list of all of the gpon hardware on that page and thing: how much duplicated and wasted effort has gone in to making dozens of different models of the exact same thing. A thing that's not really even needed if a halfway-competent ISP made an investment that's more than the absolute minimum required. Nice directory democratizing some good reverse engineering, though! </end soapbox>
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoI didn’t really understand the criticism. PON is just fine. I have an XGPON ONT and previously there was a GPON ONT. Upgrading was just getting one from the ISP after they upgraded the splitter. GPON and XGSPON can live simultaneously. I don’t think we will ever hit the limits of PON quite frankly and swapping out PONs for newer and better standards is rather trivial.
- theideaofcoffee 2y agoIt's equivalent to an old POTS party line, just with some makeup covering its shambling corpse (read: ITU G-number) and a bit more razzle-dazzle after strapping on some lasers. We can do better!
- jojobas 2y agoWhat are the alternatives with passive splitter hardware that can work underwater if shit happens?
- snvzz 2y agoAll I want is to replace the accursed ISP's integrated GPON+router box. Visited site, and tried to find SFP+ GPON modules that can do 2.5gbps. It doesn't seem to have a simple list of SFP modules at all. Wtf?
- sulandor 2y agomaybe try fs.com
- avhception 2y agoFunny, I just got my own GPON-capable SFP (a Zyxel pmg3000-d20b) last week. Finally got a fiber connection from Deutsche Telekom 2 months ago, after almost 5 years of waiting and a huge amount of fear and loathing. At one point, they threatened to cancel my order, claiming a certain subcontractor was unable to reach me. Of course that subcontractor had already done it's job months ago at that point. And this is just one of the many, many shenanigans that went on during those years. At the moment, I'm using a Fritz!Box 5530 Fiber directly hooked up to the fiber with the AVM-supplied GPON interface. But I'm planning for the Zyxel SFP to go directly into my homelab server and route from there :)
- kuschku 2y agoMake sure to check which firmware version the module you got is using. The module I ordered last year still uses an old firmware from 2020 which has telnet access available. The module I ordered a few weeks ago uses a new firmware with no telnet access, which also means no way to set the serial number anymore. I haven't yet checked whether it's still possible to access the interface via uart.
- wslh 2y agoI just want to say thank you! This is truly great work and could be an inflection point for fiber optic ISP consumers. Many people have been quietly seeking this solution for years, without finding a response. For those unfamiliar with what this means, take a moment to understand that many of these acronyms and technologies have been part of your fiber optic connection without you even realizing it. I’d also like to mention that the ‘workaround’ for many was to use the pass-through option in their routers, but not all ISP-provided routers offered that feature!
- sschueller 2y agoI am so glad that here in Switzerland the government went after the large ISP that tried to install only P2MP instead of the decided on standard of P2P for fiber. https://blog.init7.net/en/die-glasfaserstreit-geschichte/ https://blog.init7.net/en/die-glasfaserstreit-geschichte/
- misterdata 2y agoIn my neighborhood (Netherlands) it appears the fiber network is physically point-to-point (subscriber to ODF), but is operated as XGS-GPON (so all subscribers see the same light signal so to say, but each over their own ptp fiber from the ODF). So point-multipoint only at the active layer. I was told that this is because the company who is rolling out the fiber wants to make the network as attractive as possible to ISP’s who want to offer services over it (and wants them to compete) which may be more difficult in an actual physical point-multipoint network (which requires PON). The ISP currently likes PON more than AON (basically Ethernet over fiber to a switch) because the equipment is cheaper. In theory I should be able to switch to an ISP who offers AON or its own PON (they’d only have to physically patch my fiber in a different port at the ODF).
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoEven in Switzerland there were attempts of not building out AON. Swisscom was hoping they can get away with just having XGS-PON all the way to the customer and the other ISPs were also in favor of that (other than init7 which does not actually lay any fiber). The cost of P2P is pretty significant.
- sschueller 2y ago~CHF 65 more per connection is the cost difference that was calculated. For a de-facto future proof connection that should be considered insignificant. Swisscom pissed away millions of tax payer money after the government ordered an injunction to stop building out on the P2MP network. All they did was continue but just not connect those lines hoping they would win the court cause.
- FrankSansC 2y agoGPON = Gigabit Passive Optical Network ONT = Optical Network Terminal OLT = Optical Line Termination SFP = Small Form-factor Pluggable
- edude03 2y agoI’m a bell customer in Canada and it used to be the case that the ISP provided modem had a CPU too slow to run PPPoE at a gigabit despite the ISP selling plans up to 1.5gb/s (it could only do 600mb/s or something but don’t quote me). That model has a sfp ont and so you could swap it into something else with no hacking but now you can only get the model with the ont built it. The new model is better hardware wise but just as bad software wise so it feels like a step back in practice. I think selling users SFP ONTs is probably the right balance of ISP control vs allowing customer freedom
- jesprenj 2y agoWhere I live, you can replace an ONT easily. GPON in my small country is only secured with the ONT serial number and a static well known password. From a security perspective, that's perfectly fine. No one is going to hack their own neighbours or dig out fibre cables. From a usability and freedom of hardware choice, that's even better -- SN is written on the ONT and can be easily input into another ONT, unlike passwords and encryption keys that are largely unnecessary and only complicate things, providing little security because no one will hack GPON infrastructure. You run into problems, however, if you are subscribed to telephony. It's possible that the ONT will handle VoIP for you and provide you just with a RJ11 jack. In that case, you can't easily swap your ONT. But for IPTV and Internet, it works out of the box.
- daveoc64 2y agoI have an XGS-PON ONT at home (an Adtran SDX 622v) to support the symmetric 8Gbps connection I have, but it's so basic that I can't really see what benefit there would be to replacing it or hacking it. It just works, and I can plug my own router in to it.
- Stem0037 2y agoI wonder how ISPs would react to this. They're usually not thrilled about customers messing with their gear.
- bigfatfrock 2y agoI can only pray this births a ddwrt equivalent for fiber ONTs. I’m caretaking for my parents who are on ATT fiber with their giant scary black box ONT, and am consistently paranoid of what it is attempting or is doing on their network. This would be a great way to gain more transparency in its operation and possibly open useful features.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago> with their giant scary black box ONT, and am consistently paranoid of what it is attempting or is doing on their network But is this different from network equipment deployed somewhere, where you don't see it? There are AON networks that are just a PON behind the scenes but you don't see that.
- somat 2y agoThe ont should not be on their network. The normal state of affairs is demarcation point isp network | your network ---[fiber]---(ont)===[copper]===(router)===(wifi ap) Now having laid out that nice neat little diagram, this is the real world Things are messy, there is a real desire to consolidate boxes. If your network looks like below, My condolences, it sucks when you don't know where the demarcation point is. And I agree, In those cases it should probably be demarcated at the fiber line coming in. Demarcation point ? ? ? ---[fiber]---(ont/router/ap)***[2.4GHz]***
- bayindirh 2y agoMy ISP called me a while back and told me that they're decommissioning all copper infra, so it'd be better if I switch to fiber. I said OK. They brought in a Nokia GPON ONT, and a new Zyxel router. I protested against the router, and I was ready to bypass it with bridge mode (whiich it allows), but with a reliable, powerful, and flexible WiFi6 router with better coverage than my WiFi5 one won over me, and I left it in service. The thing is a beast with 4 different SSIDs plus a guest network, full gigabit ports and reliable operation. Plus it terminates my POTS line, too. It can handle the full 1000/50 mbps network without even getting warm, either. So all in all, it's not a bad device overall, and I'm a happy camper.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago> It can handle the full 1000/50 mbps network Your fiber is asymmetrical (not 1g/1g) - like low-latency cable?
- bayindirh 2y agoActually, the hardware symmetric capable, but they don't provide symmetric service (yet?). I think the two reasons are market segmentation and preventing people from running services from their homes. 50mbps is enough uplink for what I do, and I don't care about providing services or self-hosting from home. I have enough experience to run my services somewhere else on an isolated network and absorb the mayhem outside my home network.
- packetlost 2y agoGPON is the most commonly deployed FTTH technology and is not symmetric, though it should be much closer than a 20:1 down:up ratio, much closer to 2:1 IME.
- tguvot 2y agoa bit more practical guides for those who want to swap ONT to SFP https://pon.wiki/ https://pon.wiki/
- netsharc 2y agoThe fat warning about optics make me realize a fibre optic cable can transmit light straight to the ISP's box (or can it?), and that it might be possible to shoot a laser to do some damage at the other end of a communication link, however little. That makes me think of this Danger 5 scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhrjKZprOo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDhrjKZprOo
- derkades 2y agoYou could also connect a high voltage high current capable power supply to phone lines or coaxial cable and cause some damage. But it is immediately clear where it comes from!
- peter_d_sherman 2y agoThe future needs at least one completely Open Source, Open Hardware ONT... ideally several... A Google search at this point in time seems to fail to locate even one... The next best thing (a step in that direction) might be open source firmware for existing proprietary ONT's, for which I found the following links for people who are apparently attempting getting something like that working: "Has anyone tried making custom firmware for your ONT?": https://broadband.forum/threads/has-anyone-tried-making-custom-firmware-for-your-ont.211073/ https://broadband.forum/threads/has-anyone-tried-making-cust... "Build for Nokia G-2425G-A": https://forum.openwrt.org/t/build-for-nokia-g-2425g-a/106936 https://forum.openwrt.org/t/build-for-nokia-g-2425g-a/106936 Anyway, the future needs a completely Open Source, Open Hardware ONT...