4 ms·

I think there are maybe two separate issues here. Paper mills are bad but mostly from the perspective of academic institutions trying to verify people's creden

I think there are maybe two separate issues here. Paper mills are bad but mostly from the perspective of academic institutions trying to verify people's credentials/resumes. Paper mills aren't really that much of a concern in the sense of published research results being false in the way the article is talking about because people aren't really reading the papers they publish. In that sense it doesn't really matter if there are places where non-scientists need to get one paper published to check some box to get a promotion, because nobody is really considering those papers part of established scientific knowledge. On the other hand, scientists intentionally (by actually falsifying data) or unintentionally (as a result of statistical effects of what is researched and what is published) publishing bogus results in journals that are considered legitimate which aren't paper mills actually causes real harm as a result of people believing the bogus results, and unfortunately the pressures that cause that (publishing papers quickly, getting publishable results, etc.) exist everywhere, and definitely not just in China, nor did they originate in China.

pragmomm 2y ago
I think you're making the wrong distinction here, it's not about whether the result came from a known or unknown paper mill in that country. It's about whether there is a culture of fraud and fakeness that permeates that country and that scientific community. And there is certainly a culture of fraud and fakeness in China, from tofu dreg buildings, to fake food and gutter oil, to drugged olympic athletes, to fudged economic numbers. Let me give just one example of how prevalent the culture of fakeness has pervaded through China. Nowadays, because the economic decline, people are eating out less, and restaurants are getting less and less traffic. Therefore, they needed to cut costs. So some restaurants started using pre-packaged food, and just heat those up in the microwave and serve them up as cooked dishes. Because other restaurants couldn't survive without doing the same cost-cutting behavior, they've all started doing the same things. Thus, most restaurants in China are now serving pre-packaged food. And there's a backlash from consumers, so now even less people eat out. And then restaurants started using expired pre-packaged food. Oh, and because expired pre-packaged food has a tendency to cause diarrhea, some restaurants in China have started adding Loperamide into the dishes to prevent diarrhea. Fake it until you make it out of China mentality.
- ein0p 2y ago
  Since when is this kind of blatant racism acceptable on this site? “Gutter oil”? Wtf is wrong with you?
  - pragmomm 2y ago
    still happening in China in 2024 Foreigner caught a Chinese couple scooping up gutter oil https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1eo2wmy/foreigner_caught_a_chinese_couple_scooping_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1eo2wmy/...
    - ein0p 2y ago
      There are 1.4 billion people in China. You’re showing me a couple of people doing who knows what in a clip of unknowable provenance. This is not the hill to die on, my man
      - pragmomm 2y ago
        Obviously there are way more occurrences than this video. Also, the lady in the video acted like nothing was wrong and admitted no shame, which means there is a culture/common practice of using gutter oil.
        ein0p 2y ago
        Wikipedia says that today this carries the penalty of decades in prison and a suspended death sentence. I very much doubt it’s as prevalent a practice as you suggest. To suggest that this crime is a “normal part” of Chinese culture is simply wrong.
        pragmomm 2y ago
        There was no penalty/death sentence for the recent public incident of the oil tank truck that was found transporting both toxic industrial oil and cooking oil, without cleaning in between. Which apparently was a wide-spread practice, as confirmed by netizens. Instead the officials just hand waved and said it's an isolated incident, and they're looking into it. And no news of it since.

pragmomm 2y ago

I think you're making the wrong distinction here, it's not about whether the result came from a known or unknown paper mill in that country. It's about whether there is a culture of fraud and fakeness that permeates that country and that scientific community. And there is certainly a culture of fraud and fakeness in China, from tofu dreg buildings, to fake food and gutter oil, to drugged olympic athletes, to fudged economic numbers. Let me give just one example of how prevalent the culture of fakeness has pervaded through China. Nowadays, because the economic decline, people are eating out less, and restaurants are getting less and less traffic. Therefore, they needed to cut costs. So some restaurants started using pre-packaged food, and just heat those up in the microwave and serve them up as cooked dishes. Because other restaurants couldn't survive without doing the same cost-cutting behavior, they've all started doing the same things. Thus, most restaurants in China are now serving pre-packaged food. And there's a backlash from consumers, so now even less people eat out. And then restaurants started using expired pre-packaged food. Oh, and because expired pre-packaged food has a tendency to cause diarrhea, some restaurants in China have started adding Loperamide into the dishes to prevent diarrhea. Fake it until you make it out of China mentality.

ein0p 2y ago
Since when is this kind of blatant racism acceptable on this site? “Gutter oil”? Wtf is wrong with you?
- pragmomm 2y ago
  still happening in China in 2024 Foreigner caught a Chinese couple scooping up gutter oil https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1eo2wmy/foreigner_caught_a_chinese_couple_scooping_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1eo2wmy/...
  - ein0p 2y ago
    There are 1.4 billion people in China. You’re showing me a couple of people doing who knows what in a clip of unknowable provenance. This is not the hill to die on, my man
    - pragmomm 2y ago
      Obviously there are way more occurrences than this video. Also, the lady in the video acted like nothing was wrong and admitted no shame, which means there is a culture/common practice of using gutter oil.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        Wikipedia says that today this carries the penalty of decades in prison and a suspended death sentence. I very much doubt it’s as prevalent a practice as you suggest. To suggest that this crime is a “normal part” of Chinese culture is simply wrong.
        pragmomm 2y ago
        There was no penalty/death sentence for the recent public incident of the oil tank truck that was found transporting both toxic industrial oil and cooking oil, without cleaning in between. Which apparently was a wide-spread practice, as confirmed by netizens. Instead the officials just hand waved and said it's an isolated incident, and they're looking into it. And no news of it since.