4 ms·

This sounds good, but i can't help but feel is Visa is brought down, we will have a hundred hydra heads feed on us instead.

molave 2y ago
It should be treated as a natural monopoly (i.e. digital utility) along with all that it entails.
- danielmarkbruce 2y ago
  Like what? Price setting? Visa pricing is tiny.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    In Europe, sure. In the US, not so much. Unless you want to make the argument that the fees charged in the US are effectively subsidizing European cardholders and merchants who enjoy a legally-mandated lower fee, Visa seems feel the European market is worth it even with their lower profit margins. And even if you did want to make that argument, I'm not sure I care to subsidize Visa's profit margins in other places; capping fees in the US to a similar level as in Europe would be fine with me. (Except maybe not really: I do very well with rewards from credit cards. Mandated lower fees would make those disappear overnight. Of course I can't prove that I wouldn't still be saving more money with mandated lower fees, though. But I think the average person would probably save with capped fees, and that's what's most important from a policy perspective.) (Of course this presupposes that merchants set prices in order to pass along CC fees to the customer, rather than just charging whatever highest price the market will bear. If CC fees get reduced, prices might stay the same.)
    - ywvcbk 2y ago
      > European market is worth it even with their lower profit margins. Overall fee (bank + network) seems to be around 1% in Europe and 2-3% in the US. So if we subtract the cashbacks/rewards which are almost nonexistent in the EU these days I’m not sure that the difference is that huge. Also credit cards usually have monthly fees in Europe which be more than $€10 per month or so. Of course benefits like travel insurance etc. might balance that out.
      - bgnn 2y ago
        Credit cards cost like 30$ a month and come with max 2500$ per month limit in the Netherlands. For payments above that amount you need to transferonry from your bank account to the credit card. It's not accepted at 95% of the shops because the extra cost. It's only useful while booking a hotel, renting a car or traveling abroad.
    - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
      You are conflating visa network fees with interchange (which goes to the card issuing bank). Visa's actual take is like 0.15% or something. It's tiny.

molave 2y ago

It should be treated as a natural monopoly (i.e. digital utility) along with all that it entails.

danielmarkbruce 2y ago
Like what? Price setting? Visa pricing is tiny.
- kelnos 2y ago
  In Europe, sure. In the US, not so much. Unless you want to make the argument that the fees charged in the US are effectively subsidizing European cardholders and merchants who enjoy a legally-mandated lower fee, Visa seems feel the European market is worth it even with their lower profit margins. And even if you did want to make that argument, I'm not sure I care to subsidize Visa's profit margins in other places; capping fees in the US to a similar level as in Europe would be fine with me. (Except maybe not really: I do very well with rewards from credit cards. Mandated lower fees would make those disappear overnight. Of course I can't prove that I wouldn't still be saving more money with mandated lower fees, though. But I think the average person would probably save with capped fees, and that's what's most important from a policy perspective.) (Of course this presupposes that merchants set prices in order to pass along CC fees to the customer, rather than just charging whatever highest price the market will bear. If CC fees get reduced, prices might stay the same.)
  - ywvcbk 2y ago
    > European market is worth it even with their lower profit margins. Overall fee (bank + network) seems to be around 1% in Europe and 2-3% in the US. So if we subtract the cashbacks/rewards which are almost nonexistent in the EU these days I’m not sure that the difference is that huge. Also credit cards usually have monthly fees in Europe which be more than $€10 per month or so. Of course benefits like travel insurance etc. might balance that out.
    - bgnn 2y ago
      Credit cards cost like 30$ a month and come with max 2500$ per month limit in the Netherlands. For payments above that amount you need to transferonry from your bank account to the credit card. It's not accepted at 95% of the shops because the extra cost. It's only useful while booking a hotel, renting a car or traveling abroad.
  - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
    You are conflating visa network fees with interchange (which goes to the card issuing bank). Visa's actual take is like 0.15% or something. It's tiny.