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How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and escape with 2 years of prison? If the justice department was doing their job, and justice is

How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and escape with 2 years of prison? If the justice department was doing their job, and justice is blind... all of us?

akavi 2y ago
Chances increase dramatically if we cooperate in testifying against the perceived "mastermind", as Ms. Ellison did.
- jongjong 2y ago
  It seems flawed to assume that he was the mastermind, especially given the actual outcome. There is a lot of room for manipulation in the justice system in determining the hierarchy and who gets to be offered a sweet deal. Had Caroline been labeled by the media as 'the mastermind' and Sam as 'the help' by the media, the outcomes may have flipped. The media could totally construct a story where Sam was just the helpless front guy who knew nothing, misled as to the source of the money which Alameda Research was providing.
  - intuitionist 2y ago
    I think that would be an uphill battle. The money that flowed to Caroline looked like: a base salary of $200,000 a year, semiannual bonuses of up to $20 million, a de minimis equity stake in FTX, and no equity in Alameda. I don’t know what SBF’s salary or bonuses (if any) looked like, but he had a controlling stake in FTX, 90% of Alameda, and borrowed from his companies several times for hundreds of millions at a time. Caroline was nominally the CEO of Alameda but she clearly was not the one in charge of the corporate empire, and if she was masterminding the fraud she did a very poor job of monetizing it. It’s also not strictly he-said/she-said; there were at least two other executives who knew what was going on, both of whom implicated Sam as the mastermind.
kayodelycaon 2y ago
It's called a plea deal. She helped out the investigation and got other people convicted. She probably would have gotten no sentence at all if the crime hadn't been so bad. The Judge "believed Ms. Ellison was genuinely remorseful and that her cooperation had been substantial." The remorseful bit is a very important component here. She didn't commit the crime with the intention of gaming the system later to get away with it. Personally, I'm okay with this. It's a huge incentive for others involved in a criminal enterprise to do the same thing in the future. It's worth letting one person off lightly to guarantee you get everyone else.
Implicated 2y ago
Just out of curiosity, what do the orgies have to do with prison time? Are orgies at work illegal?
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Not necessarily illegal from what I understand; but it easily could contribute to a lawsuit for a hostile work environment, could anger investors, and could maybe cause a lawsuit for allowing the executives to be irresponsibly vulnerable to blackmail or rape allegations. Besides professionalism, it's just plain stupid. What happens if a participant claims they were pressured into it for the sake of a promotion, or for the sake of not being fired, or for the sake of not losing their visa? The result would be a disaster. This is also so predictable, that maybe an investor could claim legal negligence.
- shrubble 2y ago
  It speaks to the level of seriousness with which they approached their fiduciary duties, would be my view.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Does it mean they are more or less serious? what exactly are the connections?
- Lerc 2y ago
  Is there any evidence to say that they happened? The only thing I have seen is extrapolation from comments made online about polyamory. Is there a source citing specific events at specific locations?
- JSDevOps 2y ago
  I think the comment was hyperbole
linotype 2y ago
Not to mention when she gets out of prison she’ll be rich. Who knows how much crypto she has stored away.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  I'm fairly confident that she would have been required to surrender all of her crypto as part of the plea deal. If she didn't, it's perjury and she gets to go back to jail.
- lancesells 2y ago
  I think I read she owes $11B as part of her conviction.
cortesoft 2y ago
Not me. I would not serve two years in prison for any amount of money. That is insane.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
wepple 2y ago
Nit: have orgies
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  You can do them too, haha
elzbardico 2y ago
> How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and escape with 2 years of prison? Anyone who could steal 8 billion while being white, rich, female and coming from a privileged family. It is actually pretty easy once you met those pre-requisites.

How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and escape with 2 years of prison? If the justice department was doing their job, and justice is blind... all of us?

akavi 2y ago

Chances increase dramatically if we cooperate in testifying against the perceived "mastermind", as Ms. Ellison did.

jongjong 2y ago
It seems flawed to assume that he was the mastermind, especially given the actual outcome. There is a lot of room for manipulation in the justice system in determining the hierarchy and who gets to be offered a sweet deal. Had Caroline been labeled by the media as 'the mastermind' and Sam as 'the help' by the media, the outcomes may have flipped. The media could totally construct a story where Sam was just the helpless front guy who knew nothing, misled as to the source of the money which Alameda Research was providing.
- intuitionist 2y ago
  I think that would be an uphill battle. The money that flowed to Caroline looked like: a base salary of $200,000 a year, semiannual bonuses of up to $20 million, a de minimis equity stake in FTX, and no equity in Alameda. I don’t know what SBF’s salary or bonuses (if any) looked like, but he had a controlling stake in FTX, 90% of Alameda, and borrowed from his companies several times for hundreds of millions at a time. Caroline was nominally the CEO of Alameda but she clearly was not the one in charge of the corporate empire, and if she was masterminding the fraud she did a very poor job of monetizing it. It’s also not strictly he-said/she-said; there were at least two other executives who knew what was going on, both of whom implicated Sam as the mastermind.

kayodelycaon 2y ago

It's called a plea deal. She helped out the investigation and got other people convicted. She probably would have gotten no sentence at all if the crime hadn't been so bad. The Judge "believed Ms. Ellison was genuinely remorseful and that her cooperation had been substantial." The remorseful bit is a very important component here. She didn't commit the crime with the intention of gaming the system later to get away with it. Personally, I'm okay with this. It's a huge incentive for others involved in a criminal enterprise to do the same thing in the future. It's worth letting one person off lightly to guarantee you get everyone else.

Implicated 2y ago

Just out of curiosity, what do the orgies have to do with prison time? Are orgies at work illegal?

gjsman-1000 2y ago
Not necessarily illegal from what I understand; but it easily could contribute to a lawsuit for a hostile work environment, could anger investors, and could maybe cause a lawsuit for allowing the executives to be irresponsibly vulnerable to blackmail or rape allegations. Besides professionalism, it's just plain stupid. What happens if a participant claims they were pressured into it for the sake of a promotion, or for the sake of not being fired, or for the sake of not losing their visa? The result would be a disaster. This is also so predictable, that maybe an investor could claim legal negligence.
shrubble 2y ago
It speaks to the level of seriousness with which they approached their fiduciary duties, would be my view.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Does it mean they are more or less serious? what exactly are the connections?
Lerc 2y ago
Is there any evidence to say that they happened? The only thing I have seen is extrapolation from comments made online about polyamory. Is there a source citing specific events at specific locations?
JSDevOps 2y ago
I think the comment was hyperbole

linotype 2y ago

Not to mention when she gets out of prison she’ll be rich. Who knows how much crypto she has stored away.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
I'm fairly confident that she would have been required to surrender all of her crypto as part of the plea deal. If she didn't, it's perjury and she gets to go back to jail.
lancesells 2y ago
I think I read she owes $11B as part of her conviction.

cortesoft 2y ago

Not me. I would not serve two years in prison for any amount of money. That is insane.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

wepple 2y ago

Nit: have orgies

s1artibartfast 2y ago
You can do them too, haha

elzbardico 2y ago

> How many of us here could steal 8 billion, do orgies at work, and escape with 2 years of prison? Anyone who could steal 8 billion while being white, rich, female and coming from a privileged family. It is actually pretty easy once you met those pre-requisites.