5 ms·

Do you need the data to know that busses are insanely slow?

AStonesThrow 2y ago
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a double-articulated bus filled with people going to work/play/shop. Also, slow = safe. Around here, the operators are cautious, diligent, and the best drivers on the road.
- selectodude 2y ago
  MTA bus drivers are maniacs. I mean, I appreciate that they are but cautious or diligent aren’t the adjectives I’d use.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a double-articulated bus filled with people going to work/play/shop. Let's imagine a chart, "Average door to door journey time experienced by a passenger" and "Total journey time" as a function of "Number of people on the bus." Do you think these lines go up and to the right, or down and to the right? If it goes down and to the right, do you think the slope is steep enough so that the total door to door journey time goes down? Who is the marginal bus passenger? Is it people who are in a hurry, or who can take their time to get to a destination? What does that say about average door to door journey time? I don't get it. It seems like common sense to me that busses are slow. As they get used more, they get slower, not faster. There is so much adverse selection for a bus passenger: the very first passenger is for whom it is most convenient, and the very last passenger likely has the worst journeys. In your scenario, you asked to estimate. The expected average passenger and aggregate journey times of a double articulated bus filled with people is much slower than an empty bus. That said, anyone is entitled to strongly held beliefs about anything. The only intervention that lowers average and total door to door journey times makes busses look more like Ubers than trains.
  - abecedarius 2y ago
    It's hard to overlook bandwidth/latency tradeoffs when you are yourself the packet.
    - AStonesThrow 2y ago
      Especially when you're a low-latency packet with minimum payload who benefits from a lack of congestion on the network... Consider a city without any buses: everyone who's drunk, poor, has no license/insurance, underage, distracted by infants or smartphone, they're all on the road with you, walking, biking, in individual, poorly-maintained cars. You may begin screaming for them to get on a bus already.
elijaht 2y ago
FWIW I regularly take the bus and find it to be comparable or better than the train for many of the routes I regularly travel. I do have to be more mindful of traffic, but rarely find myself thinking the bus is slow
- kiwijamo 2y ago
  Am curious as to where this happens. Everywhere I go around the world, train is much faster than buses (a general rule is 2x faster but express trains can be even faster). Anytime there are buses replacing train services, the bus is often at least 2x slower than the equivalent train service (and sometimes they even end up skipping certain low-usage stops for the bus to try and achieve a manageable timetable for the buses). I've not seen anywhere in the world where buses are faster.
- throw4847285 2y ago
  As long as you don't make the mistake of trying to take the bus through a neighborhood which contains a community that celebrates a raucous holiday on the day you are traveling. Especially embarrassing when it's a holiday you're familiar with, and you just didn't think about it. But I'll admit, that's a niche complaint.
adamtaylor_13 2y ago
It appears the purpose of this post was primarily to encourage others to explore the dataset, not necessarily to state, "Buses are slow". It's possible some "bored data nerds" may find some patterns that help real people in real life while poking around on a Thursday afternoon!
paxys 2y ago
Yes, you do

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a double-articulated bus filled with people going to work/play/shop. Also, slow = safe. Around here, the operators are cautious, diligent, and the best drivers on the road.

selectodude 2y ago
MTA bus drivers are maniacs. I mean, I appreciate that they are but cautious or diligent aren’t the adjectives I’d use.
doctorpangloss 2y ago
> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a double-articulated bus filled with people going to work/play/shop. Let's imagine a chart, "Average door to door journey time experienced by a passenger" and "Total journey time" as a function of "Number of people on the bus." Do you think these lines go up and to the right, or down and to the right? If it goes down and to the right, do you think the slope is steep enough so that the total door to door journey time goes down? Who is the marginal bus passenger? Is it people who are in a hurry, or who can take their time to get to a destination? What does that say about average door to door journey time? I don't get it. It seems like common sense to me that busses are slow. As they get used more, they get slower, not faster. There is so much adverse selection for a bus passenger: the very first passenger is for whom it is most convenient, and the very last passenger likely has the worst journeys. In your scenario, you asked to estimate. The expected average passenger and aggregate journey times of a double articulated bus filled with people is much slower than an empty bus. That said, anyone is entitled to strongly held beliefs about anything. The only intervention that lowers average and total door to door journey times makes busses look more like Ubers than trains.
- abecedarius 2y ago
  It's hard to overlook bandwidth/latency tradeoffs when you are yourself the packet.
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    Especially when you're a low-latency packet with minimum payload who benefits from a lack of congestion on the network... Consider a city without any buses: everyone who's drunk, poor, has no license/insurance, underage, distracted by infants or smartphone, they're all on the road with you, walking, biking, in individual, poorly-maintained cars. You may begin screaming for them to get on a bus already.

elijaht 2y ago

FWIW I regularly take the bus and find it to be comparable or better than the train for many of the routes I regularly travel. I do have to be more mindful of traffic, but rarely find myself thinking the bus is slow

kiwijamo 2y ago
Am curious as to where this happens. Everywhere I go around the world, train is much faster than buses (a general rule is 2x faster but express trains can be even faster). Anytime there are buses replacing train services, the bus is often at least 2x slower than the equivalent train service (and sometimes they even end up skipping certain low-usage stops for the bus to try and achieve a manageable timetable for the buses). I've not seen anywhere in the world where buses are faster.
throw4847285 2y ago
As long as you don't make the mistake of trying to take the bus through a neighborhood which contains a community that celebrates a raucous holiday on the day you are traveling. Especially embarrassing when it's a holiday you're familiar with, and you just didn't think about it. But I'll admit, that's a niche complaint.

adamtaylor_13 2y ago

It appears the purpose of this post was primarily to encourage others to explore the dataset, not necessarily to state, "Buses are slow". It's possible some "bored data nerds" may find some patterns that help real people in real life while poking around on a Thursday afternoon!

paxys 2y ago

Yes, you do