3 ms·

The DOJ explicitly isn't comparing using Visa to handling cash, they're comparing it to what it would cost if Visa didn't allegedly manipulate the market. Buyi

The DOJ explicitly isn't comparing using Visa to handling cash, they're comparing it to what it would cost if Visa didn't allegedly manipulate the market. Buying from Standard Oil was more efficient than trying to stick with non-oil-based alternatives, but that doesn't mean that Standard Oil didn't illegally manipulate the market to maintain a monopoly that hurt consumers.

hnburnsy 2y ago
Agreed, just adding it as a data point to those who think cash is a solution. I looked through the lawsuit and this is about stifling alternative payment methods.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  Nobody is suggesting cash as a "solution" except you. The issue isn't the solution, the issue is the staggering cost of the service in the US vs everywhere else. It's 2x higher in the US, for no good reason other than having a monopoly. In Europe near-instant wiring of money is trivial so for large purchases, businesses can just accept a transfer - so MC/Visa have competition there. Here, wire transfers are a royal pain in the ass, slow, and expensive, so there's no competition. Zelle and others are slowly changing that, but they mostly compete against paypal for p2p payments, not b2c etc.
  - rtpg 2y ago
    I mean in Europe they also have credit card payments, the rates are just pushed down. Yeah it means Europe doesn't get the cool rewards. There doesn't need to be a magical new business here. Some numbers changing can resolve a lot of pressure.
  - hnburnsy 2y ago
    Comments from this discussion... >Visa charges 3%. Everything you buy could be 3% cheaper, that's better than cash back. >And anyone that ever uses cash for anything is overpaying, because prices everywhere have been jacked up to include headroom for "give back 2.5% as credit card rewards" >For people like me who treat a credit card as a debit card, I see no reason for vendors to pay that "tax" if there are almost free alternatives.
legitster 2y ago
> Standard Oil didn't illegally manipulate the market FYI, Standard Oil was never actually charged with market manipulation. The court determined that all of their acquisitions were legal, but that it was within the scope of the Sherman Antitrust Act to break them up just by virtue of their market power.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
KennyBlanken 2y ago
Also, those numbers are for the US market. In Europe, merchant credit card fees are half what they are in the US. https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/articles/na-vs-eu-interchangefees/ https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/articles/na-vs-eu-i... Grandparent commenter was engaging in a false dilemma fallacy (cash handling vs US merchant cc fees...and not US merchant CC fees vs what the rest of the world pays.)

hnburnsy 2y ago

Agreed, just adding it as a data point to those who think cash is a solution. I looked through the lawsuit and this is about stifling alternative payment methods.

KennyBlanken 2y ago
Nobody is suggesting cash as a "solution" except you. The issue isn't the solution, the issue is the staggering cost of the service in the US vs everywhere else. It's 2x higher in the US, for no good reason other than having a monopoly. In Europe near-instant wiring of money is trivial so for large purchases, businesses can just accept a transfer - so MC/Visa have competition there. Here, wire transfers are a royal pain in the ass, slow, and expensive, so there's no competition. Zelle and others are slowly changing that, but they mostly compete against paypal for p2p payments, not b2c etc.
- rtpg 2y ago
  I mean in Europe they also have credit card payments, the rates are just pushed down. Yeah it means Europe doesn't get the cool rewards. There doesn't need to be a magical new business here. Some numbers changing can resolve a lot of pressure.
- hnburnsy 2y ago
  Comments from this discussion... >Visa charges 3%. Everything you buy could be 3% cheaper, that's better than cash back. >And anyone that ever uses cash for anything is overpaying, because prices everywhere have been jacked up to include headroom for "give back 2.5% as credit card rewards" >For people like me who treat a credit card as a debit card, I see no reason for vendors to pay that "tax" if there are almost free alternatives.

legitster 2y ago

> Standard Oil didn't illegally manipulate the market FYI, Standard Oil was never actually charged with market manipulation. The court determined that all of their acquisitions were legal, but that it was within the scope of the Sherman Antitrust Act to break them up just by virtue of their market power.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

KennyBlanken 2y ago

Also, those numbers are for the US market. In Europe, merchant credit card fees are half what they are in the US. https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/articles/na-vs-eu-interchangefees/ https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/articles/na-vs-eu-i... Grandparent commenter was engaging in a false dilemma fallacy (cash handling vs US merchant cc fees...and not US merchant CC fees vs what the rest of the world pays.)