3 ms·

TLDR - 2x cheaper, slightly smarter, and they only compare those new models to their own old ones. Does google have moat?

usaar333 2y ago
The math score exceeds o1-preview (though not mini or o1 full) fwiw.
re-thc 2y ago
> Does google have moat? Potentially (depends if the EU cares)... E.g. integration with Google search (instead of ChatGPT's Bing search), providing map data, android integration, etc...
- ianbicking 2y ago
  Their Android integration certainly isn't on track to earn them any moats... https://hachyderm.io/@ianbicking/113099247306589777 https://hachyderm.io/@ianbicking/113099247306589777
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cj 2y ago
Moat could be things like direct integration into Gmail (ask it to find your last 5 receipts from Amazon), Drive (chat with PDF), Slides (create images / flow charts), etc. Not sure if their models are the moat. But they definitely have an opportunity from the productization perspective. But so does Microsoft.
- svara 2y ago
  Have you tried the Gemini Gmail integration? I have that enabled in my GSuite account. It's incredible how bad it is. I've seen it claim I've never received mail from a certain person, while the email was open right next to the chat widget. I've seen it tell me to use the standard search tool, when that wasn't suitable for the query. I've literally never had it find anything that wouldn't have been easier to find with the regular search. I mean, it's a really obvious thing for them to do, I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that.
  - cj 2y ago
    > I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that. I agree. Right now it's not very useful, but has the potential to be if they keep investing in it. Maybe. I think Google, Microsoft, etc are all pressured to release something for fear of appearing to be behind the curve. Apple is clearly taking the opposite approach re: speed to market.
    - svara 2y ago
      Yeah - The thing though is, you could build the same thing better in a day's work by using OpenAI's API, or Gemini's for that matter. I wonder if there isn't a deeper, more worrying (for Google) reason behind that - that AI is killing their margin. Google has always been about delivering top notch services, and winning by being able to do that cheaper than the competition. It's "in their DNA" - everyone knows that using links to a website as a quality signal was a really good idea in the early days of Google, but what's a little less well known is that the true stroke of genius was the algorithmic efficiency of PageRank. Similarly for GMail. Remember when it launched, 1 GB of free storage was just completely out of every competitor's league? It may just be that this recipe of being smarter than everyone on algorithms and on datacenter operations might just not work anymore in the age of modern machine learning.
      - knowriju 2y ago
        The problem with current crop of LLM models is that it makes for a great demo. I am also confident that you can build a working prototype for GMail, Outlook or any other surface. But I am equally confident it will be a massively different ballgame to role it out to a billion users. You'll run into a lot of edge cases and have to take care of a lot of adversarial scenarios as well. Pretty sure that's the same issue Apple is running into as well, and why they have had to postpone rollouts.
        svara 2y ago
        I don't buy that at all. They've literally shipped a broken, useless product that this amateur could do better (yes, as a demo). All the hard scalability stuff, they've already done before. Gmail exists, the Gemini API exists. If they're not getting it to work, there must be another reason. They just can't afford to provide it at a price point that users accept.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Doesn't Microsoft also get OpenAI IP, if they run out of money?

usaar333 2y ago

The math score exceeds o1-preview (though not mini or o1 full) fwiw.

re-thc 2y ago

> Does google have moat? Potentially (depends if the EU cares)... E.g. integration with Google search (instead of ChatGPT's Bing search), providing map data, android integration, etc...

ianbicking 2y ago
Their Android integration certainly isn't on track to earn them any moats... https://hachyderm.io/@ianbicking/113099247306589777 https://hachyderm.io/@ianbicking/113099247306589777

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cj 2y ago

Moat could be things like direct integration into Gmail (ask it to find your last 5 receipts from Amazon), Drive (chat with PDF), Slides (create images / flow charts), etc. Not sure if their models are the moat. But they definitely have an opportunity from the productization perspective. But so does Microsoft.

svara 2y ago
Have you tried the Gemini Gmail integration? I have that enabled in my GSuite account. It's incredible how bad it is. I've seen it claim I've never received mail from a certain person, while the email was open right next to the chat widget. I've seen it tell me to use the standard search tool, when that wasn't suitable for the query. I've literally never had it find anything that wouldn't have been easier to find with the regular search. I mean, it's a really obvious thing for them to do, I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that.
- cj 2y ago
  > I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that. I agree. Right now it's not very useful, but has the potential to be if they keep investing in it. Maybe. I think Google, Microsoft, etc are all pressured to release something for fear of appearing to be behind the curve. Apple is clearly taking the opposite approach re: speed to market.
  - svara 2y ago
    Yeah - The thing though is, you could build the same thing better in a day's work by using OpenAI's API, or Gemini's for that matter. I wonder if there isn't a deeper, more worrying (for Google) reason behind that - that AI is killing their margin. Google has always been about delivering top notch services, and winning by being able to do that cheaper than the competition. It's "in their DNA" - everyone knows that using links to a website as a quality signal was a really good idea in the early days of Google, but what's a little less well known is that the true stroke of genius was the algorithmic efficiency of PageRank. Similarly for GMail. Remember when it launched, 1 GB of free storage was just completely out of every competitor's league? It may just be that this recipe of being smarter than everyone on algorithms and on datacenter operations might just not work anymore in the age of modern machine learning.
    - knowriju 2y ago
      The problem with current crop of LLM models is that it makes for a great demo. I am also confident that you can build a working prototype for GMail, Outlook or any other surface. But I am equally confident it will be a massively different ballgame to role it out to a billion users. You'll run into a lot of edge cases and have to take care of a lot of adversarial scenarios as well. Pretty sure that's the same issue Apple is running into as well, and why they have had to postpone rollouts.
      - svara 2y ago
        I don't buy that at all. They've literally shipped a broken, useless product that this amateur could do better (yes, as a demo). All the hard scalability stuff, they've already done before. Gmail exists, the Gemini API exists. If they're not getting it to work, there must be another reason. They just can't afford to provide it at a price point that users accept.
ethbr1 2y ago
Doesn't Microsoft also get OpenAI IP, if they run out of money?