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If the goal of this article is to normalize abandoning your projects then I'm not so sure it's a good idea. All else aside it can be a horrendous waste of time

by mojuba 2y ago

If the goal of this article is to normalize abandoning your projects then I'm not so sure it's a good idea. All else aside it can be a horrendous waste of time and no amount of "at least I've learned something" can justify that. Learn by also finishing stuff, right?

optymizer 2y ago
I think it's healthy for projects to die. It frees up your time to start another project, instead of being stuck in a rut. I sometimes find myself working on a project that goes nowhere, thinking that if I just put enough effort it will go somewhere, and I'm not having any fun or learning new things. And I'm hard on myself with thoughts like "I need to finish it, I need to finish it" but then when I ask myself: 'why?', it's usually because of this fear of _not finishing the project_ or maybe it's the fear of not being able to distinguish the grinding phase from the failed project phase. Either way, too many times I have experienced a liberating feeling when I failed. It's a chance to start over.
- msephton 2y ago
  Survival of the fittest, for sure!
m463 2y ago
Maybe take things as far as they should go, but no further. also: sunk cost fallacy
yard2010 2y ago
When working on a personal project, say for fun, what makes the difference between a time wasted and a time spent?
Fellshard 2y ago
That is a misreading of the article. It's more about discovery through quick, iterative prototyping, which can include rapid discovery of fatal flaws early.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  As Musk would say: Waste metal, not time.
  - kyledrake 2y ago
    The man that spent his time on an overpriced takeover and subsequent ruining of Twitter instead of spending that time with the children he abandoned is a cautionary tale of wasted time, not a sage to be mined for wisdom.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Wasting metal instead of time is the difference between Dragon and Starliner. I will listen to the guy who's actually getting things done, thanks.
      - _ea1k 2y ago
        It is funny how much criticism you are taking for saying things that are obviously true. Yes, Musk's personal life is a mess and noone would enjoy being him. That can be true at the same time as his business philosophy effectively pushes forward multiple businesses more quickly than their competitors. That can even be true while his businesses are run in ways that most of us would find unacceptable. Regardless of palatability, SpaceX is effective.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        HN suffers from a real bad case of MDS (Musk Derangement Syndrome).
      - kyledrake 2y ago
        Imagine how much more he would get done if he addressed his mental illness and filled his life with the richness of family and social bonds instead of wasting that time gaming an algorithm on a platform he paid too much for to become the leading proprietor of authoritarian-conservative junk posting. If anyone thinks he doesn't have enough time for that, go over to Twitter and look at what he's doing with that time he doesn't have right now.
ebiester 2y ago
The thing is that he also finished stuff. The goal is to avoid analysis paralysis and "just try it" instead of keep thinking about it. It's a bias toward action and rejecting sunk cost.
bunderbunder 2y ago
There's a great Smarter Every Day episode where Destin works with a glassblowing shop to create shattered Prince Rupert's drops encased in blocks of resin. Nobody has done this before, they're working out how to do it as they go along, they make quite a few mistakes along the way. One of the things the video highlights is how, when this happens, the team wouldn't just stop and try the same thing again. They'd keep going, break it all the way, basically just use it as an opportunity to fuck around with their materials. He waxes poetic about how great this is. They're taking advantage of an unparalleled opportunity to learn more about the behavior of the materials they're working with. Because they're now free to try things they wouldn't want to do if they were still on the path to creating a complete, polished product. It doesn't even really count as taking risks anymore, because you can't really mess up something that's already trash. And he points out, rightly, that a mindset like that that values learning and experimentation over always succeeding, is one of the best ways to become truly great at what you do.
criddell 2y ago
Like John Lennon once said, time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted.
- mojuba 2y ago
  Artists can say that, especially if it's John Lennon :) but I'm not sure I can apply it to myself
  - yladiz 2y ago
    Why?
  - criddell 2y ago
    Well, the blog is called Engineers Need Art. I think your reluctance comes from a different prioritization. The writer is clearly interested in developing their creativity (and are wildly succeeding!). The project is the means to do that. Continuing on a project even after it no longer is the best use of your time is just a type of sunk cost fallacy.
Mathnerd314 2y ago
I think it's a bad title. The moral is more like "work on everything you can think of but don't release anything until it's ready. And some projects will never be ready, but that's OK - you can look at them 30 years later and release them on github for nostalgia." ChatGPT summarizes it as "Build Fast, Ship Never (Until You Do)"
- msephton 2y ago
  The title is an adaptation of "Move Fast and Break Things" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_fast_and_break_things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_fast_and_break_things

by mojuba 2y ago

optymizer 2y ago

I think it's healthy for projects to die. It frees up your time to start another project, instead of being stuck in a rut. I sometimes find myself working on a project that goes nowhere, thinking that if I just put enough effort it will go somewhere, and I'm not having any fun or learning new things. And I'm hard on myself with thoughts like "I need to finish it, I need to finish it" but then when I ask myself: 'why?', it's usually because of this fear of _not finishing the project_ or maybe it's the fear of not being able to distinguish the grinding phase from the failed project phase. Either way, too many times I have experienced a liberating feeling when I failed. It's a chance to start over.

msephton 2y ago
Survival of the fittest, for sure!

m463 2y ago

Maybe take things as far as they should go, but no further. also: sunk cost fallacy

yard2010 2y ago

When working on a personal project, say for fun, what makes the difference between a time wasted and a time spent?

Fellshard 2y ago

That is a misreading of the article. It's more about discovery through quick, iterative prototyping, which can include rapid discovery of fatal flaws early.

Dalewyn 2y ago
As Musk would say: Waste metal, not time.
- kyledrake 2y ago
  The man that spent his time on an overpriced takeover and subsequent ruining of Twitter instead of spending that time with the children he abandoned is a cautionary tale of wasted time, not a sage to be mined for wisdom.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    Wasting metal instead of time is the difference between Dragon and Starliner. I will listen to the guy who's actually getting things done, thanks.
    - _ea1k 2y ago
      It is funny how much criticism you are taking for saying things that are obviously true. Yes, Musk's personal life is a mess and noone would enjoy being him. That can be true at the same time as his business philosophy effectively pushes forward multiple businesses more quickly than their competitors. That can even be true while his businesses are run in ways that most of us would find unacceptable. Regardless of palatability, SpaceX is effective.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        HN suffers from a real bad case of MDS (Musk Derangement Syndrome).
    - kyledrake 2y ago
      Imagine how much more he would get done if he addressed his mental illness and filled his life with the richness of family and social bonds instead of wasting that time gaming an algorithm on a platform he paid too much for to become the leading proprietor of authoritarian-conservative junk posting. If anyone thinks he doesn't have enough time for that, go over to Twitter and look at what he's doing with that time he doesn't have right now.

ebiester 2y ago

The thing is that he also finished stuff. The goal is to avoid analysis paralysis and "just try it" instead of keep thinking about it. It's a bias toward action and rejecting sunk cost.

bunderbunder 2y ago

There's a great Smarter Every Day episode where Destin works with a glassblowing shop to create shattered Prince Rupert's drops encased in blocks of resin. Nobody has done this before, they're working out how to do it as they go along, they make quite a few mistakes along the way. One of the things the video highlights is how, when this happens, the team wouldn't just stop and try the same thing again. They'd keep going, break it all the way, basically just use it as an opportunity to fuck around with their materials. He waxes poetic about how great this is. They're taking advantage of an unparalleled opportunity to learn more about the behavior of the materials they're working with. Because they're now free to try things they wouldn't want to do if they were still on the path to creating a complete, polished product. It doesn't even really count as taking risks anymore, because you can't really mess up something that's already trash. And he points out, rightly, that a mindset like that that values learning and experimentation over always succeeding, is one of the best ways to become truly great at what you do.

criddell 2y ago

Like John Lennon once said, time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted.

mojuba 2y ago
Artists can say that, especially if it's John Lennon :) but I'm not sure I can apply it to myself
- yladiz 2y ago
  Why?
- criddell 2y ago
  Well, the blog is called Engineers Need Art. I think your reluctance comes from a different prioritization. The writer is clearly interested in developing their creativity (and are wildly succeeding!). The project is the means to do that. Continuing on a project even after it no longer is the best use of your time is just a type of sunk cost fallacy.

Mathnerd314 2y ago

I think it's a bad title. The moral is more like "work on everything you can think of but don't release anything until it's ready. And some projects will never be ready, but that's OK - you can look at them 30 years later and release them on github for nostalgia." ChatGPT summarizes it as "Build Fast, Ship Never (Until You Do)"

msephton 2y ago
The title is an adaptation of "Move Fast and Break Things" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_fast_and_break_things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_fast_and_break_things