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I doubt such an organic process could be fully automated - but why would you, given there's plenty of people around? It isn't going to be cheaper I'm sure. Any

I doubt such an organic process could be fully automated - but why would you, given there's plenty of people around? It isn't going to be cheaper I'm sure. Anyway, there's been experiments with biodiversity that is compatible with machinery by alternating rows of plants. This reduced e.g. the proliferation of pests between rows.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
Most existing farms in the US/Canada already have trouble finding enough labor to work much simpler processes.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Every market runs the price level where there's some haggling and marginal cases.
pfdietz 2y ago
I would hope that wages will rise across the world, making manual labor intensive processes obsolete. This would be a good thing.
- bovermyer 2y ago
  Except historically this is not what's happened when production has become more efficient.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    Of course it's what happened.
    - Isamu 2y ago
      A bit of truth in both your statements. Productivity increases are usually due to investments in equipment and training, and employers are keen to recoup this cost. So the employees have to demand a share in increased wages. This may not happen. It is absolutely not automatic. No employer turns over increased profits to the employee (well not usually.) So what has happened during our lifetime is that jobs have been exported to lower wage markets, since the employer reasons that they can invest in higher productivity in a cheaper job market and pocket the difference.
      - ETH_start 2y ago
        Wage increases are fundamentally automatic, because there is a limited pool of labor and higher productivity means companies have more goods/services with which to bid on that labor. In the last three decades of the 19th century in the US, wages doubled despite union membership being at historically low levels. The rise in wages was driven by the same process seen globally in every country that has experienced rapidly growing per capita GDP. As companies produce more per worker and compete for a limited pool of labor, they bid higher for workers. This results in greater value, in terms of goods/services, offered to the average worker, which, in monetary terms, translates to higher inflation-adjusted wages.
        bovermyer 2y ago
        Oh really. Then tell me, what's the history of the minimum wage, adjusted for inflation, compared to cost of living?
        ETH_start 2y ago
        The minimum wage is a government imposed price floor, not an average wage.
        bovermyer 2y ago
        Defend that.
        ETH_start 2y ago
        I was simply explaining why wages rise automatically, not making any comment on government price floors. But since you ask: there should be no government price floors or caps. The price paid should be based on mutually voluntary agreements.
- onemoresoop 2y ago
  > I would hope that wages will rise across the world, making manual labor intensive processes obsolete. This would be a good thing. I don't know if this fully makes sense. If wages were to rise manual labor would thrive too. While some people enjoy working in offices same is true of manual labor, some people really do enjoy manual labor (excluding dangerous or demeaning jobs), and of course where it makes sense with tools to make it more efficient.
  - fauigerzigerk 2y ago
    The only way to raise living standards is to become more productive. Manual or not manual is not really the point. The point is output per hour worked. Producing far less per hour worked than what is possible is either low paid work or a hobby.

MichaelZuo 2y ago

Most existing farms in the US/Canada already have trouble finding enough labor to work much simpler processes.

HPsquared 2y ago
Every market runs the price level where there's some haggling and marginal cases.

pfdietz 2y ago

I would hope that wages will rise across the world, making manual labor intensive processes obsolete. This would be a good thing.

bovermyer 2y ago
Except historically this is not what's happened when production has become more efficient.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  Of course it's what happened.
  - Isamu 2y ago
    A bit of truth in both your statements. Productivity increases are usually due to investments in equipment and training, and employers are keen to recoup this cost. So the employees have to demand a share in increased wages. This may not happen. It is absolutely not automatic. No employer turns over increased profits to the employee (well not usually.) So what has happened during our lifetime is that jobs have been exported to lower wage markets, since the employer reasons that they can invest in higher productivity in a cheaper job market and pocket the difference.
    - ETH_start 2y ago
      Wage increases are fundamentally automatic, because there is a limited pool of labor and higher productivity means companies have more goods/services with which to bid on that labor. In the last three decades of the 19th century in the US, wages doubled despite union membership being at historically low levels. The rise in wages was driven by the same process seen globally in every country that has experienced rapidly growing per capita GDP. As companies produce more per worker and compete for a limited pool of labor, they bid higher for workers. This results in greater value, in terms of goods/services, offered to the average worker, which, in monetary terms, translates to higher inflation-adjusted wages.
      - bovermyer 2y ago
        Oh really. Then tell me, what's the history of the minimum wage, adjusted for inflation, compared to cost of living?
        ETH_start 2y ago
        The minimum wage is a government imposed price floor, not an average wage.
        bovermyer 2y ago
        Defend that.
        ETH_start 2y ago
        I was simply explaining why wages rise automatically, not making any comment on government price floors. But since you ask: there should be no government price floors or caps. The price paid should be based on mutually voluntary agreements.
onemoresoop 2y ago
> I would hope that wages will rise across the world, making manual labor intensive processes obsolete. This would be a good thing. I don't know if this fully makes sense. If wages were to rise manual labor would thrive too. While some people enjoy working in offices same is true of manual labor, some people really do enjoy manual labor (excluding dangerous or demeaning jobs), and of course where it makes sense with tools to make it more efficient.
- fauigerzigerk 2y ago
  The only way to raise living standards is to become more productive. Manual or not manual is not really the point. The point is output per hour worked. Producing far less per hour worked than what is possible is either low paid work or a hobby.