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That's the challenge being presented, why isn't the societal default to call a child "They" until they identify with a particular pronoun? Have you asked them i

That's the challenge being presented, why isn't the societal default to call a child "They" until they identify with a particular pronoun? Have you asked them if they like dresses over pants? Do they like trains over dolls? I'm not criticizing your parenting style or approach, but this should be about about them, not society or you or your wife. They might go through a phase where they prefer being called or boy, or an ostrich, or reject every label, and it doesn't have to be a crisis, it's just a normal part of growing up.

surgical_fire 2y ago
> That's the challenge being presented, why isn't the societal default to call a child "They" until they identify with a particular pronoun? I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow. What I can tell is that challenging the rules come at a price. I don't want to impose that price on my daughter. If she wants to challenge societal rules (against my advice) when she is old enough to do so, she will have my support. > Have you asked them if they like dresses over pants? Do they like trains over dolls? Asking her things now is foolish. She is only months old. If she prefers playing with cars and trains rather than dolls, I will buy her cars and trains. To be frank, I think all those are lame. I will try to nudge her into liking puzzles, board games, painting, that sort of stuff. And later on videogames. I dream of the day she will be old enough to play Mario Kart with me and beat me. > I'm not criticizing your parenting style or approach, but this should be about about them, not society or you or your wife I agree, but that will be at an age when she can meaningfully build her own idea of self. Right now she cries when her nappies are dirty, and likes when I make her sleep walking arond the bedroom holding her against my chest. I don't think she can mount an intellectual defense about her own gender identity, or about religion, or any such complex subjects.
- spaceribs 2y ago
  Yeah I will admit that considering you have a daughter literally a month old, they can't yet express their individuality and separateness from others, but I think you should be prepared for these challenging questions far more early on than you'd expect. Many parents aren't assigning a gender at birth. Many have same-sex parents. Many parents are hateful, and have kids who they've taught their hatred towards. "I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow." isn't something I'm personally comfortable with or passing on to my children. There's consequences to following the rules as much as breaking them (if they are even rules to begin with).
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > I think you should be prepared for these challenging questions far more early on than you'd expect. Maybe. I have no idea what her interests and desires will be, nor do I control them. I can at best try to nudge them in certain directions, and offer what little guidance and support I can when the time comes. What I can say in the subject of sexuality and gender, is that it was something I was completely uninterested in until I was closer to puberty. My peers were pretty much the same. I have the impression that younger generations are dealing with it much earlier. I am not sure if this is healthy. I tend to think it is not. > "I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow." isn't something I'm personally comfortable with or passing on to my children. One of my main challenges is guiding my daughter on how to navigate a world that at best is uninterested in her happiness and well being, and at worst is outright malevolent. Part of this challenge is teaching her that society has many expectations of her, and choosing what mountains to climb and what hills to die on is something that is part of life. Since sexuality and gender are very touchy subjects, I can give many other examples. She is expected to go through school, no matter if she wants to. When she is older she is expected to have skills that are of use in a system of work and bosses that you have to adhere to in order to have a functional life. I can go on and on about the very many things that are imposed on everyone by a careless, harsh, and unfair world. Not following rules is typically a luxury of the elites. While I am thankfully much more affluent than my parents were, we are far from rich.

surgical_fire 2y ago

> That's the challenge being presented, why isn't the societal default to call a child "They" until they identify with a particular pronoun? I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow. What I can tell is that challenging the rules come at a price. I don't want to impose that price on my daughter. If she wants to challenge societal rules (against my advice) when she is old enough to do so, she will have my support. > Have you asked them if they like dresses over pants? Do they like trains over dolls? Asking her things now is foolish. She is only months old. If she prefers playing with cars and trains rather than dolls, I will buy her cars and trains. To be frank, I think all those are lame. I will try to nudge her into liking puzzles, board games, painting, that sort of stuff. And later on videogames. I dream of the day she will be old enough to play Mario Kart with me and beat me. > I'm not criticizing your parenting style or approach, but this should be about about them, not society or you or your wife I agree, but that will be at an age when she can meaningfully build her own idea of self. Right now she cries when her nappies are dirty, and likes when I make her sleep walking arond the bedroom holding her against my chest. I don't think she can mount an intellectual defense about her own gender identity, or about religion, or any such complex subjects.

spaceribs 2y ago
Yeah I will admit that considering you have a daughter literally a month old, they can't yet express their individuality and separateness from others, but I think you should be prepared for these challenging questions far more early on than you'd expect. Many parents aren't assigning a gender at birth. Many have same-sex parents. Many parents are hateful, and have kids who they've taught their hatred towards. "I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow." isn't something I'm personally comfortable with or passing on to my children. There's consequences to following the rules as much as breaking them (if they are even rules to begin with).
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > I think you should be prepared for these challenging questions far more early on than you'd expect. Maybe. I have no idea what her interests and desires will be, nor do I control them. I can at best try to nudge them in certain directions, and offer what little guidance and support I can when the time comes. What I can say in the subject of sexuality and gender, is that it was something I was completely uninterested in until I was closer to puberty. My peers were pretty much the same. I have the impression that younger generations are dealing with it much earlier. I am not sure if this is healthy. I tend to think it is not. > "I don't know. I don't make the rules. I just follow." isn't something I'm personally comfortable with or passing on to my children. One of my main challenges is guiding my daughter on how to navigate a world that at best is uninterested in her happiness and well being, and at worst is outright malevolent. Part of this challenge is teaching her that society has many expectations of her, and choosing what mountains to climb and what hills to die on is something that is part of life. Since sexuality and gender are very touchy subjects, I can give many other examples. She is expected to go through school, no matter if she wants to. When she is older she is expected to have skills that are of use in a system of work and bosses that you have to adhere to in order to have a functional life. I can go on and on about the very many things that are imposed on everyone by a careless, harsh, and unfair world. Not following rules is typically a luxury of the elites. While I am thankfully much more affluent than my parents were, we are far from rich.