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Is the ability for your daughter to read about gender identity and sexual orientation pushing it on her? The bans are targeting books that even have characters

Is the ability for your daughter to read about gender identity and sexual orientation pushing it on her? The bans are targeting books that even have characters in them that are non-standard, not only books that are telling your child to become trans and gay (Are there even any books that are doing that? I've never seen any)

surgical_fire 2y ago
> Is the ability for your daughter to read about gender identity and sexual orientation pushing it on her? Yes. That is the literal definition of having information pushed on to her. The ideas contained within whatever book would not pop up on her mind out of thin air, they would be contained in the text. As a father, who is responsible for her health, well-being, education, happiness and future, I want her to occupy her mind with things more suitable for a child. I won't give her the Bible for the same reason. > The bans are targeting books that even have characters in them that are non-standard, not only books that are telling your child to become trans and gay (Are there even any books that are doing that? I've never seen any) I don't know. And honestly, I don't care. She has the world to explore at her young age, and there is so much more in the universe. I want to leave themes of sexual orientation and gender identity to be explored at a later stage, when her body and mind are more suited to such things. If at that point she wants to be whatever, she will have my support. I want her happiness after all.
- falcolas 2y ago
  > The ideas contained within whatever book would not pop up on her mind out of thin air You say that as if your child won't hear about these topics from their peers. Some of whom will have lesbian or gay parents. Some of whom will be trans. All you're doing is making your child work off hearsay instead of accurate information. > I want to leave themes of sexual orientation and gender identity to be explored at a later stage Really? Then why are you dressing them in stereotypically girl clothing, calling them "her", and exposing them to the heterosexual relationship between you and your wife? Exposing a child to something doesn't make them that thing. The proof for that is very simple: Exposing a girl to a boy doesn't make her a boy. Exposing a child to a heterosexual relationship doesn't make them heterosexual. Instead, exposing children to drag queens and gays and lesbians and asexuals and trans individuals means that there's a the greater the chance they will choose to continue to live if they are something other than a CIS gendered girl attracted to boys. It means they won't feel like they're broken or wrong or hated. Suicide is a very real problem for children encouraged to remain in the closet. Exposing children to information is how they learn. It's better if the information is accurate. > I want her happiness after all. Apparently only if it matches your definition of who "she" is, or after you feel that "she" is "old enough" (whatever TF that means).
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > You say that as if your child won't hear about these topics from their peers. Some of whom will have lesbian or gay parents. Some of whom will be trans. All you're doing is making your child work off hearsay instead of accurate information. Yes. She will likely hear about God from peers with religious parents. Are you suggesting I teach her the Bible so she gets "accurate information"? Part of my job as a father is helping her develop her intellectual stance on "hearsay". > Really? Then why are you dressing them in stereotypically girl clothing, calling them "her", and exposing them to the heterosexual relationship between you and your wife? Because as a father I have to make choices on her behalf, with her well being in mind. And I am heterosexual, so that is the sort of environment she is exposed to. > Exposing a child to something doesn't make them that thing. Absolutely, she will be gradually exposed to many things and situations as she grows. All things in due time. > It means they won't feel like they're broken or wrong or hated. Suicide is a very real problem for children encouraged to remain in the closet. There will, unavoidably, come a time when she will come to understand her own sexuality, how she views her body, etc and so forth. Typically this happens at around puberty, at least that is how it worked for basically everyone I know, myself included. She will have my full support no matter her choices. Until then my role is to help her develop the best way I can. > Exposing children to information is how they learn. It's better if the information is accurate. It's also important that the information comes at a proper age. > Apparently only if it matches your definition of who "she" is, or after you feel that "she" is "old enough" (whatever TF that means). Right now it has to match my definition of who she is, because she can't meaningfully make any choices on her own. She can't even choose what brand of baby formula I give her, much less what pronoums I use to refer to her in the third person. Your sarcastic quotation marks do very little to support your rationale. And I made it clear what I mean by "old enough". Some subjects are complex, and demand a certain level of maturity to be properly tackled.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > Part of my job as a father is helping her develop her intellectual stance on "hearsay". And what stance will you set with them to avoid discussing sexual orientation (or religion) when they report that their friend Austin has two moms? Or when their other friend Keesha says that two moms being together is wrong and God will send them to burn in hell? > And I am heterosexual, so that is the sort of environment she is exposed to. Which is my point. You are exposing your child to sexual and gender concepts - you're just limiting the exposure the ones you feel are normal. > Typically this happens at around puberty, at least that is how it worked for basically everyone I know, myself included. Gender identity in particular has nothing to do with physical sexual maturity. It happens much earlier in life. And putting off any talks about gender identity until puberty starts means that the child in question will have changes forced upon their body that they may not want to live with at that point in time, even if they chose to remain their gender assigned to them at birth. General preferences in attraction also start to manifest much earlier than 13; I remember knowing that I liked girls back in first grade. > It's also important that the information comes at a proper age. What age is proper to start teaching, say, math at? If a child can not comprehend geometry, is it too early to teach them how to count? Acknowledging that women can like women and men can like men and sometimes people aren't attracted to either one and all of those are OK and normal, that's something that can be done quite early in life. So can the acknowledgement that someone can be born a girl and grow up as a boy and that too is OK. Neither requires any discussion of the mechanics of sex, nor do they require sexual, physical, or mental maturity. > Right now it has to match my definition of who she is, because she can't meaningfully make any choices on her own. She can't even choose what brand of baby formula I give her[...] My rationale is aimed at more than your child's years as a baby. They won't be a baby for long, and if you're determined to bury your (and by extension their) head in the sand until they're 13 is going to do them no favors. Thankfully, your child is young enough that you have time to think about it.

surgical_fire 2y ago

> Is the ability for your daughter to read about gender identity and sexual orientation pushing it on her? Yes. That is the literal definition of having information pushed on to her. The ideas contained within whatever book would not pop up on her mind out of thin air, they would be contained in the text. As a father, who is responsible for her health, well-being, education, happiness and future, I want her to occupy her mind with things more suitable for a child. I won't give her the Bible for the same reason. > The bans are targeting books that even have characters in them that are non-standard, not only books that are telling your child to become trans and gay (Are there even any books that are doing that? I've never seen any) I don't know. And honestly, I don't care. She has the world to explore at her young age, and there is so much more in the universe. I want to leave themes of sexual orientation and gender identity to be explored at a later stage, when her body and mind are more suited to such things. If at that point she wants to be whatever, she will have my support. I want her happiness after all.

falcolas 2y ago
> The ideas contained within whatever book would not pop up on her mind out of thin air You say that as if your child won't hear about these topics from their peers. Some of whom will have lesbian or gay parents. Some of whom will be trans. All you're doing is making your child work off hearsay instead of accurate information. > I want to leave themes of sexual orientation and gender identity to be explored at a later stage Really? Then why are you dressing them in stereotypically girl clothing, calling them "her", and exposing them to the heterosexual relationship between you and your wife? Exposing a child to something doesn't make them that thing. The proof for that is very simple: Exposing a girl to a boy doesn't make her a boy. Exposing a child to a heterosexual relationship doesn't make them heterosexual. Instead, exposing children to drag queens and gays and lesbians and asexuals and trans individuals means that there's a the greater the chance they will choose to continue to live if they are something other than a CIS gendered girl attracted to boys. It means they won't feel like they're broken or wrong or hated. Suicide is a very real problem for children encouraged to remain in the closet. Exposing children to information is how they learn. It's better if the information is accurate. > I want her happiness after all. Apparently only if it matches your definition of who "she" is, or after you feel that "she" is "old enough" (whatever TF that means).
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > You say that as if your child won't hear about these topics from their peers. Some of whom will have lesbian or gay parents. Some of whom will be trans. All you're doing is making your child work off hearsay instead of accurate information. Yes. She will likely hear about God from peers with religious parents. Are you suggesting I teach her the Bible so she gets "accurate information"? Part of my job as a father is helping her develop her intellectual stance on "hearsay". > Really? Then why are you dressing them in stereotypically girl clothing, calling them "her", and exposing them to the heterosexual relationship between you and your wife? Because as a father I have to make choices on her behalf, with her well being in mind. And I am heterosexual, so that is the sort of environment she is exposed to. > Exposing a child to something doesn't make them that thing. Absolutely, she will be gradually exposed to many things and situations as she grows. All things in due time. > It means they won't feel like they're broken or wrong or hated. Suicide is a very real problem for children encouraged to remain in the closet. There will, unavoidably, come a time when she will come to understand her own sexuality, how she views her body, etc and so forth. Typically this happens at around puberty, at least that is how it worked for basically everyone I know, myself included. She will have my full support no matter her choices. Until then my role is to help her develop the best way I can. > Exposing children to information is how they learn. It's better if the information is accurate. It's also important that the information comes at a proper age. > Apparently only if it matches your definition of who "she" is, or after you feel that "she" is "old enough" (whatever TF that means). Right now it has to match my definition of who she is, because she can't meaningfully make any choices on her own. She can't even choose what brand of baby formula I give her, much less what pronoums I use to refer to her in the third person. Your sarcastic quotation marks do very little to support your rationale. And I made it clear what I mean by "old enough". Some subjects are complex, and demand a certain level of maturity to be properly tackled.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > Part of my job as a father is helping her develop her intellectual stance on "hearsay". And what stance will you set with them to avoid discussing sexual orientation (or religion) when they report that their friend Austin has two moms? Or when their other friend Keesha says that two moms being together is wrong and God will send them to burn in hell? > And I am heterosexual, so that is the sort of environment she is exposed to. Which is my point. You are exposing your child to sexual and gender concepts - you're just limiting the exposure the ones you feel are normal. > Typically this happens at around puberty, at least that is how it worked for basically everyone I know, myself included. Gender identity in particular has nothing to do with physical sexual maturity. It happens much earlier in life. And putting off any talks about gender identity until puberty starts means that the child in question will have changes forced upon their body that they may not want to live with at that point in time, even if they chose to remain their gender assigned to them at birth. General preferences in attraction also start to manifest much earlier than 13; I remember knowing that I liked girls back in first grade. > It's also important that the information comes at a proper age. What age is proper to start teaching, say, math at? If a child can not comprehend geometry, is it too early to teach them how to count? Acknowledging that women can like women and men can like men and sometimes people aren't attracted to either one and all of those are OK and normal, that's something that can be done quite early in life. So can the acknowledgement that someone can be born a girl and grow up as a boy and that too is OK. Neither requires any discussion of the mechanics of sex, nor do they require sexual, physical, or mental maturity. > Right now it has to match my definition of who she is, because she can't meaningfully make any choices on her own. She can't even choose what brand of baby formula I give her[...] My rationale is aimed at more than your child's years as a baby. They won't be a baby for long, and if you're determined to bury your (and by extension their) head in the sand until they're 13 is going to do them no favors. Thankfully, your child is young enough that you have time to think about it.