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The west is rapidly losing any kind of credibility and moral leadership due to its hypocritical stance where on the one hand they denounce the invasion of Ukrai

The west is rapidly losing any kind of credibility and moral leadership due to its hypocritical stance where on the one hand they denounce the invasion of Ukraine, but on the other hand simultaneously support/enable the Gaza genocide. "Warn them" — why should they trust that western governments are being sincere rather than yet again just feigning humanitarian concern while having a political agenda? This extends to outside just central Asia: African leaders have been complaining for some time now that while every time China visits, they get a bridge or a hospital, every time a western leader visits, they only get a lecture (on how $COUNTRY is bad, how $STUFF is bad) and nothing ever gets done. Frankly it concerns me that so few people know that the global south is rapidly losing trust in the west because of our own hypocritical, politicized, insincere behavior. Western media pretty much never talks about this sort of stuff and so most people are still in lala land.

tim333 2y ago
Not sure it's that hypocritical. The basic western principle is people should be able to live in peace. If some actor starts killing them, be it Putin or Hamas, it's ok to fight back.
- FooBarWidget 2y ago
  Except that's not at all an accurate representation of Gaza. They have been repressing/killing Palestinians way before Hamas, and in the past year they bombed hospitals, killed thousands of children and other innocents, etc. Not to mention that most of the territory was stolen from Palestina in the first place. There is even damning evidence that the IDF kills Israeli hostages just so that they can bomb Palestinians!? The very myopic insistance on "but Hamas" while also ignoring everything else about the context, is exactly what the global south recognizes as hypocritical.
pvaldes 2y ago
> African leaders have been complaining that while every time China visits, they get a bridge or a hospital And China gets wide unlimited access to African raw matters for decades, all-you-can-eat style. This is not a gift; Is African countries receiving something but losing control over their fisheries or wood. And if there is an environmental disaster, bye. The African country will keep the mess. https://globalvoices.org/2021/06/07/belt-and-road-initiative-projects-ramp-up-nigerias-favourable-perception-of-china/ https://globalvoices.org/2021/06/07/belt-and-road-initiative... The Nigerian writer Tade Ipadeola wrote on X: "The dust at the Lagos-Ibadan rail station is silica dust. Respirable and a known carcinogen. Every building within 100m of this site is currently covered" "Jack Straw, remarked that what China was doing in Africa was much the same as what Britain had done 150 years ago.” Is much better than American Indians receiving crystal bead collars, but the underlying system is the same. Both part benefit, but one benefits much more than the other. Is just a soft type of Early Colonialism, not really different than the European trading companies slowly eating India in the past.
- FooBarWidget 2y ago
  This is such a weird take. Of course it's not a gift. It's a trade. But it's a beneficial trade, just like how having a bakery near you is beneficial. Just because the bakery wants something in return doesn't mean that having a bakery near you isn't beneficial to the community. Just think about how weird it is to accuse the electric utility company of "not being there for altruistic reasons" or that "they are plundering your bank account". Like, is your life really better off if you save on utility bills while not having electricity? Nobody is forcing Africa to give China access to minerals. China is not coming with guns. African leaders have said multiple times that when they say "no" to China, then China says "okay here's another proposal". They don't return with an army to force you to sign. If African nations signed a bad deal then they ought to take responsibility for that. These are countries that are supposed to be accountable for their own decisions, not toddlers. The onus is on them to do their homework before they enter a deal. If you dislike the fact that Africa voluntarily makes such business deals with China, then maybe you ought to give Africa better business deals, or perhaps even gifts (as you seem to imply that only gifts are beneficial/valuable). Unfortunately, western countries are doing neither: they keep lecturing about not working with China while also not providing any alternatives. Why do you think Africa deals with China in the first place? Because dealing with China — even if China's deals are not always problem-free — is still more beneficial than inaction and the status quo! Africa benefits more from having roads, bridges, schools and hospitals than from hoarding minerals.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Is really a friendly trade or just plounder? https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmental-footprint-in-africa/ https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmenta... The Chinese oil company Sinopec has been charged with mass pollution, dynamiting areas of a National Park in Gabon and carving roads through the forest According to GlobalTimber.org.uk, China is sourcing huge amounts of wood from forests in Cameroon, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon and Liberia. What is worrying is the illegal nature of this trade Half of all wood imported from Cameroon into China is harvested illegally. In Gabon, 70% of wood exports to China are illegal. In Liberia 100% is illegal The case of Nigeria and its Niger Delta oilfields is well known as an environmental disaster area

tim333 2y ago

Not sure it's that hypocritical. The basic western principle is people should be able to live in peace. If some actor starts killing them, be it Putin or Hamas, it's ok to fight back.

FooBarWidget 2y ago
Except that's not at all an accurate representation of Gaza. They have been repressing/killing Palestinians way before Hamas, and in the past year they bombed hospitals, killed thousands of children and other innocents, etc. Not to mention that most of the territory was stolen from Palestina in the first place. There is even damning evidence that the IDF kills Israeli hostages just so that they can bomb Palestinians!? The very myopic insistance on "but Hamas" while also ignoring everything else about the context, is exactly what the global south recognizes as hypocritical.

pvaldes 2y ago

> African leaders have been complaining that while every time China visits, they get a bridge or a hospital And China gets wide unlimited access to African raw matters for decades, all-you-can-eat style. This is not a gift; Is African countries receiving something but losing control over their fisheries or wood. And if there is an environmental disaster, bye. The African country will keep the mess. https://globalvoices.org/2021/06/07/belt-and-road-initiative-projects-ramp-up-nigerias-favourable-perception-of-china/ https://globalvoices.org/2021/06/07/belt-and-road-initiative... The Nigerian writer Tade Ipadeola wrote on X: "The dust at the Lagos-Ibadan rail station is silica dust. Respirable and a known carcinogen. Every building within 100m of this site is currently covered" "Jack Straw, remarked that what China was doing in Africa was much the same as what Britain had done 150 years ago.” Is much better than American Indians receiving crystal bead collars, but the underlying system is the same. Both part benefit, but one benefits much more than the other. Is just a soft type of Early Colonialism, not really different than the European trading companies slowly eating India in the past.

FooBarWidget 2y ago
This is such a weird take. Of course it's not a gift. It's a trade. But it's a beneficial trade, just like how having a bakery near you is beneficial. Just because the bakery wants something in return doesn't mean that having a bakery near you isn't beneficial to the community. Just think about how weird it is to accuse the electric utility company of "not being there for altruistic reasons" or that "they are plundering your bank account". Like, is your life really better off if you save on utility bills while not having electricity? Nobody is forcing Africa to give China access to minerals. China is not coming with guns. African leaders have said multiple times that when they say "no" to China, then China says "okay here's another proposal". They don't return with an army to force you to sign. If African nations signed a bad deal then they ought to take responsibility for that. These are countries that are supposed to be accountable for their own decisions, not toddlers. The onus is on them to do their homework before they enter a deal. If you dislike the fact that Africa voluntarily makes such business deals with China, then maybe you ought to give Africa better business deals, or perhaps even gifts (as you seem to imply that only gifts are beneficial/valuable). Unfortunately, western countries are doing neither: they keep lecturing about not working with China while also not providing any alternatives. Why do you think Africa deals with China in the first place? Because dealing with China — even if China's deals are not always problem-free — is still more beneficial than inaction and the status quo! Africa benefits more from having roads, bridges, schools and hospitals than from hoarding minerals.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Is really a friendly trade or just plounder? https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmental-footprint-in-africa/ https://dialogue.earth/en/pollution/741-china-s-environmenta... The Chinese oil company Sinopec has been charged with mass pollution, dynamiting areas of a National Park in Gabon and carving roads through the forest According to GlobalTimber.org.uk, China is sourcing huge amounts of wood from forests in Cameroon, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon and Liberia. What is worrying is the illegal nature of this trade Half of all wood imported from Cameroon into China is harvested illegally. In Gabon, 70% of wood exports to China are illegal. In Liberia 100% is illegal The case of Nigeria and its Niger Delta oilfields is well known as an environmental disaster area