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> As an outsider looking in, I have to wonder why the rest of the world, and especially the western world sit by silently while countries run themselves into th

by arkh 2y ago

> As an outsider looking in, I have to wonder why the rest of the world, and especially the western world sit by silently while countries run themselves into the ground? Because last time they did something it was "outside interference CIA black OPS are the devil". And before that "colonialism". So good luck to the people of those countries but the change has to come from within. And if they don't have enough people who want the change, well... Inch'Allah.

flanked-evergl 2y ago
> So good luck to the people of those countries but the change has to come from within. Agreed, but do they know change has to come? When was the last time this message was clearly proclaimed to them?
- lazide 2y ago
  I don’t know, look out the window? The reality is, people there are trying as hard as they can to survive, and it’s shitty and hard, largely due to sociopolitical factors + economic factors which interrelate with their identity. So good luck changing that without it getting much worse. For a US comparison, check out the gun control and abortion ‘debate’.
  - flanked-evergl 2y ago
    > The reality is, people there are trying as hard as they can to survive, and it’s shitty and hard, largely due to sociopolitical factors + economic factors which interrelate with their identity. Repeatedly voting for the most corrupt politicians imaginable that mismanage a country into crisis, as the South African electorate does, is not "trying as hard as they can to survive". It's, in fact, doing everything possible to put make surviving more difficult. > For a US comparison, check out the gun control and abortion ‘debate’. I'm not really talking about the US, but if Paksitan and South Africa was even 1/10th as well governed as the US it would be awesome.
    - lazide 2y ago
      And when those politicians are using industrialized propaganda and actively pushing everyone’s buttons in a way they can barely see straight, surely it’s the poor farmers fault? That’s the sociopolitical side. Why do you think Trump is a still a viable candidate (per the numbers)? You can call them lazy idiots all you want, it doesn’t change what is happening. When we can successfully pry the parasite that is what is going on with Trump from out ass, then we can be all high and mighty. Right now the only reason we aren’t literally in the same boat is momentum and capital.
      - flanked-evergl 2y ago
        > Why do you think Trump is a still a viable candidate (per the numbers)? I don't know why you are talking about US politics. I'm not an American, I'm not interested in the US other than for the fact that their rapidly collapsing hegemony is quickly accelerating the world into global conflicts, but even so, the world is not entitled to global peace guaranteed by an American hegemony.
        lazide 2y ago
        If you think places like Pakistan will get better in this respect if the US goes this way, then I wish you luck. That’s my point.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  >> Because last time they did something it was "outside interference CIA black OPS are the devil". And before that "colonialism". And after that, "two drone strikes a week, every week, for 14 years". > do they know change has to come? If they don't, then it doesn't. "Change is needed" is a basic sense a human being is able to feel and express by the time they turn 3. > When was the last time this message was clearly proclaimed to them? It's not something that needs proclaiming. Again, this is obvious to them. What's missing is motivation and coordination. What would be useful is to have a positive example of what the changes needed would lead to. Unfortunately, modern West is doing its best to provide the opposite externally, all while spinning apart internally. Even though the life here may be objectively better to life there, oppressive regimes and rebel wannabes all get plenty of rhetorical ammunition to say otherwise.

by arkh 2y ago

flanked-evergl 2y ago

> So good luck to the people of those countries but the change has to come from within. Agreed, but do they know change has to come? When was the last time this message was clearly proclaimed to them?

lazide 2y ago
I don’t know, look out the window? The reality is, people there are trying as hard as they can to survive, and it’s shitty and hard, largely due to sociopolitical factors + economic factors which interrelate with their identity. So good luck changing that without it getting much worse. For a US comparison, check out the gun control and abortion ‘debate’.
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  > The reality is, people there are trying as hard as they can to survive, and it’s shitty and hard, largely due to sociopolitical factors + economic factors which interrelate with their identity. Repeatedly voting for the most corrupt politicians imaginable that mismanage a country into crisis, as the South African electorate does, is not "trying as hard as they can to survive". It's, in fact, doing everything possible to put make surviving more difficult. > For a US comparison, check out the gun control and abortion ‘debate’. I'm not really talking about the US, but if Paksitan and South Africa was even 1/10th as well governed as the US it would be awesome.
  - lazide 2y ago
    And when those politicians are using industrialized propaganda and actively pushing everyone’s buttons in a way they can barely see straight, surely it’s the poor farmers fault? That’s the sociopolitical side. Why do you think Trump is a still a viable candidate (per the numbers)? You can call them lazy idiots all you want, it doesn’t change what is happening. When we can successfully pry the parasite that is what is going on with Trump from out ass, then we can be all high and mighty. Right now the only reason we aren’t literally in the same boat is momentum and capital.
    - flanked-evergl 2y ago
      > Why do you think Trump is a still a viable candidate (per the numbers)? I don't know why you are talking about US politics. I'm not an American, I'm not interested in the US other than for the fact that their rapidly collapsing hegemony is quickly accelerating the world into global conflicts, but even so, the world is not entitled to global peace guaranteed by an American hegemony.
      - lazide 2y ago
        If you think places like Pakistan will get better in this respect if the US goes this way, then I wish you luck. That’s my point.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
>> Because last time they did something it was "outside interference CIA black OPS are the devil". And before that "colonialism". And after that, "two drone strikes a week, every week, for 14 years". > do they know change has to come? If they don't, then it doesn't. "Change is needed" is a basic sense a human being is able to feel and express by the time they turn 3. > When was the last time this message was clearly proclaimed to them? It's not something that needs proclaiming. Again, this is obvious to them. What's missing is motivation and coordination. What would be useful is to have a positive example of what the changes needed would lead to. Unfortunately, modern West is doing its best to provide the opposite externally, all while spinning apart internally. Even though the life here may be objectively better to life there, oppressive regimes and rebel wannabes all get plenty of rhetorical ammunition to say otherwise.