3 ms·

But if you wan to have your own vision, why don't you just create your own world to do that in? If I took Fahrenheit 451 and adapt the story so that the state

But if you wan to have your own vision, why don't you just create your own world to do that in? If I took Fahrenheit 451 and adapt the story so that the state executes Guy Montag because my vision is that hate speech is dangerous, it's not Fahrenheit 451 anymore. Take the most recent Dune movies as an example; In the books, Paul spends so much time becoming Fremen and trying to resist the prophecy as well as endlessly worrying about a space jihad, only taking the water of life when he was not able to predict that Gurney would try and kill his mother. In the new vision "Let the Jihad begin!" The first is the story of a reluctant hero who is trying to keep his family alive and cherish the love of the desert people who adopted him. The second portrays a mother and son who scheme to use those around them to further their end goal of power and revenge. If I enjoy eating Oreo cookies and I buy an ice cream that is labeled "Oreo Ice Cream" but when I taste it, it is Strawberry Jam flavor, I am not going to be writing a review that praises the product designer for their bold vision. I will be taking the product back for a refund.

bawolff 2y ago
> The second portrays a mother and son who scheme to use those around them to further their end goal of power and revenge. That was present in the books at times as well.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  From the conversation he had in the tent with his mother after his first waking dream: >“I must tell you about my waking dream,” Paul said. (Now there was fury in his voice.) “To be sure you accept what I say, I’ll tell you first I know you’ll bear a daughter, my sister, here on Arrakis.” >Jessica placed her hands against the tent floor, pressed back against the curving fabric wall to still a pang of fear. She knew her pregnancy could not show yet. Only her own Bene Gesserit training had allowed her to read the first faint signals of her body, to know of the embryo only a few weeks old. >“Only to serve,” Jessica whispered, clinging to the Bene Gesserit motto. “We exist only to serve.” >“We’ll find a home among the Fremen,” Paul said, “where your Missionaria Protectiva has bought us a bolt hole.” >He suddenly saw how fertile was the ground into which he had fallen, and with this realization, the terrible purpose filled him, creeping through the empty place within, threatening to choke him with grief.He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello, Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. >The other path held long patches of grey obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. >“I can’t go that way,” he muttered. “That’s what the old witches of your schools really want.” >He remained silent, thinking like the seed he was, thinking with the race consciousness he had first experienced as terrible purpose. He found that he no longer could hate the Bene Gesserit or the Emperor or even the Harkonnens. They were all caught up in the need of their race to renew its scattered inheritance, to cross and mingle and infuse their bloodlines in a great new pooling of genes. And the race knew only one sure way for this—the ancient way, the tried and certain way that rolled over everything in its path: jihad. Surely, I cannot choose that way, he thought. So no, what happened in the book after the fall of the House of Artradies and what was shown in "Part 2" of the movie are diametrically opposed. Even before he meets the Fremen, he hates that everything was manipulated by the Bene Gesserit. He does not want to go along with the pan and wants to find his own way that would result in a better future.
Barrin92 2y ago
> it's not Fahrenheit 451 anymore. What it is, is your relationship to the story and that's really what an adaption is about. A good adaption I think always shows you what someone feels in regards to the original work, it's a response to or a dialog with the original and that can include any emotion you have towards it. Artistically you don't really owe Fahrenheit anything, that's the sort of "fandom" mentality that I think is pretty misplaced and immature in art, but popular now because everything has fans and followers. I agree with your observation about Dune but I think it's quite smart. Villeneuve has basically rewritten Chani entirely and shows us the story from her point of view, starting and ending the two movies with her deliberately. It's a critical outside view on Paul unlike the book in many ways, and I think that just reflects Villeneuve's perspective. (and also coincidentally Herbert's actual intent for Paul, it will hopefully spare people the awkward monologues from the second book) Deep Space 9 is another example of this right, there's the die-hard fan mentality of "It goes against everything ST is about!", but ultimately it makes the universe much more interesting and compelling because it gives you another perspective from another point in time from someone who didn't quite buy into the utopianism and just expressed that.
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  I am not saying that I nor anyone else "owe" a particular story anything; however you can't take a story, change it significantly and then claim it is the same thing. To use my food analogy again: If I take pita bread, stuff it with cheese, spread tomato sauce on top along with toppings, it may be very delicious but if I serve it when someone orders a pizza...well I doubt they will be a repeat customer. I bet you could make an amazing comedy by showing the events of "The Christmas Carol" from someone other than Scroog's point of view but it's not "The Christmas Carol" then and shouldn't be labeled as such. "Old Man and the Sea" from the fish's point of view could be an interesting commentary but it would also not be "Old Man and the Sea"

bawolff 2y ago

> The second portrays a mother and son who scheme to use those around them to further their end goal of power and revenge. That was present in the books at times as well.

themaninthedark 2y ago
From the conversation he had in the tent with his mother after his first waking dream: >“I must tell you about my waking dream,” Paul said. (Now there was fury in his voice.) “To be sure you accept what I say, I’ll tell you first I know you’ll bear a daughter, my sister, here on Arrakis.” >Jessica placed her hands against the tent floor, pressed back against the curving fabric wall to still a pang of fear. She knew her pregnancy could not show yet. Only her own Bene Gesserit training had allowed her to read the first faint signals of her body, to know of the embryo only a few weeks old. >“Only to serve,” Jessica whispered, clinging to the Bene Gesserit motto. “We exist only to serve.” >“We’ll find a home among the Fremen,” Paul said, “where your Missionaria Protectiva has bought us a bolt hole.” >He suddenly saw how fertile was the ground into which he had fallen, and with this realization, the terrible purpose filled him, creeping through the empty place within, threatening to choke him with grief.He had seen two main branchings along the way ahead—in one he confronted an evil old Baron and said: “Hello, Grandfather.” The thought of that path and what lay along it sickened him. >The other path held long patches of grey obscurity except for peaks of violence. He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. >“I can’t go that way,” he muttered. “That’s what the old witches of your schools really want.” >He remained silent, thinking like the seed he was, thinking with the race consciousness he had first experienced as terrible purpose. He found that he no longer could hate the Bene Gesserit or the Emperor or even the Harkonnens. They were all caught up in the need of their race to renew its scattered inheritance, to cross and mingle and infuse their bloodlines in a great new pooling of genes. And the race knew only one sure way for this—the ancient way, the tried and certain way that rolled over everything in its path: jihad. Surely, I cannot choose that way, he thought. So no, what happened in the book after the fall of the House of Artradies and what was shown in "Part 2" of the movie are diametrically opposed. Even before he meets the Fremen, he hates that everything was manipulated by the Bene Gesserit. He does not want to go along with the pan and wants to find his own way that would result in a better future.

Barrin92 2y ago

> it's not Fahrenheit 451 anymore. What it is, is your relationship to the story and that's really what an adaption is about. A good adaption I think always shows you what someone feels in regards to the original work, it's a response to or a dialog with the original and that can include any emotion you have towards it. Artistically you don't really owe Fahrenheit anything, that's the sort of "fandom" mentality that I think is pretty misplaced and immature in art, but popular now because everything has fans and followers. I agree with your observation about Dune but I think it's quite smart. Villeneuve has basically rewritten Chani entirely and shows us the story from her point of view, starting and ending the two movies with her deliberately. It's a critical outside view on Paul unlike the book in many ways, and I think that just reflects Villeneuve's perspective. (and also coincidentally Herbert's actual intent for Paul, it will hopefully spare people the awkward monologues from the second book) Deep Space 9 is another example of this right, there's the die-hard fan mentality of "It goes against everything ST is about!", but ultimately it makes the universe much more interesting and compelling because it gives you another perspective from another point in time from someone who didn't quite buy into the utopianism and just expressed that.

themaninthedark 2y ago
I am not saying that I nor anyone else "owe" a particular story anything; however you can't take a story, change it significantly and then claim it is the same thing. To use my food analogy again: If I take pita bread, stuff it with cheese, spread tomato sauce on top along with toppings, it may be very delicious but if I serve it when someone orders a pizza...well I doubt they will be a repeat customer. I bet you could make an amazing comedy by showing the events of "The Christmas Carol" from someone other than Scroog's point of view but it's not "The Christmas Carol" then and shouldn't be labeled as such. "Old Man and the Sea" from the fish's point of view could be an interesting commentary but it would also not be "Old Man and the Sea"