8 ms·

I think Jobless Reincarnation is a perfect example because of its paedophilic undertones if not outright being so.

entropicdrifter 2y ago
Jobless Reincarnation has a lot of fucked-up trashy aspects to it, but it also explores how those things fuck people up, why and how, and goes deep into character development and a realistic depiction of what healing from trauma (and people who haven't healed from trauma) looks like. There are a lot of harem anime out there that do not do that type of deeper character work and function solely as male power-fantasies. See, for instance, Tsukimitchi or Rosario X Vampire That was and still is my point
claudiawerner 2y ago
'Pedophilic undertones' doesn't relate to 'trashy' or 'harem', even if you read the anime that way. In fact, it can be extremely interesting to see something which is so rarely portrayed or discussed in fiction, even fiction for adults. The reality of child abuse is neither solved nor rebuked by depictions or explorations of psychology in adult fiction.
- mrsilencedogood 2y ago
  I don't even know what this show is, but I can guarantee you any pedo-related stuff in there is highly unlikely to be for the purpose of "depictions or explorations of psychology". Come on, don't try to kid me. It's there for the same reason all the other seinen anime have a ton of borderline softcore porn tropes in them.
  - claudiawerner 2y ago
    I don't really know how to respond to the idea that the fact anime includes fanservice means it can't deal with sensitive topics at the same time.
    - some_random 2y ago
      Why is the fanservice sexualized children?
      - mrsilencedogood 2y ago
        I don't know why I even bothered to try to push back, beyond the fact that these kind of "philosophers" plague the anime community. The pattern is very predictable. Tons and tons of ink spilled to try to explain why they're not a pedophile while not doing anything more than distracting from the original point and dithering endlessly. And nobody wants to push back because of it, so they take silence as complicit assent.
      - claudiawerner 2y ago
        In this case, it's not; but even if it were, does that limit the ability of a text to explore interesting themes? Why? I'd recommend reading deeper into the scholarly literature of sexual themes in anime and manga before assuming that fans necessarily interpret 'children' into the text. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639806 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639806
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        notanotheracc 2y ago
        > In this case, it's not; but even if it were, does that limit the ability of a text to explore interesting themes? Why? In this case, it does. You can't have a show about a pedophile's redemption while simultaneously appealing to that demographic. Let's not act like there's any consensus in the "scholarly literature" — if you could even call the writing of some guy with no credentials that.
        claudiawerner 2y ago
        >if you could even call the writing of some guy with no credentials that The researcher I'm quoting (who's by far not alone on writing this topic in his field) is Patrick Galbraith, a researcher and associate professor of cultural anthropology at Senshu University in Tokyo. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=FLmsh_8AAAAJ https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=FLmsh_8AAAAJ
dragontamer 2y ago
So people know: I've chosen a highly controversial anime on purpose to prove that there's anime some people hate and other anime people love. I personally couldn't get very far into Jobless Reincarnation. So I'm on the haters side. But in any case, the controversies of this anime are well known.
- Izkata 2y ago
  I actually didn't know there was any controversy around it, but this: > I personally couldn't get very far into Jobless Reincarnation. explains your choice. Based on how other modern isekais typically go, it definitely starts out looking like this one is going to go down a similar route, but it really doesn't. The overall character development for the main character is about him figuring out how to relate to others and develop healthy relationships instead of the fixations and fears he started with.
  - glandium 2y ago
    The interesting thing about Jobless Reincarnation is that, even though the Anime was a late comer in the Isekai genre, the original work, the online novel, is actually a precursor if not the starting point of the current wave of Isekai works.
  - dragontamer 2y ago
    Nah. It more or less went where I expected. It's a modern Fate/Stay Night. It took a lot of trash Isekai tropes but played them straight and dramatic. Like F/SN took your harem tropes and video game stats and crafted a magic system out of it... Jobless Reincarnation starts with panty thieves, sex scenes, voyeurism, a harem of three girlfriends and the tries to reverse engineer a story out of the tropes. It's good for what it is. But it doesn't change that it's fundamentally starting with so called trashy tropes. ------- It's clear that they're setting up a love triangle between the Red Head Tsundere hothead, the quiet traditional wife type, and his hot teacher who is a 100+ year old demon but looks like a teenager. Like, there's more merit to this than maybe I'm making fun of. Because the author tries really really hard to make these situations play out with how a real life person might react to these revelations. But that doesn't change the fact that I can smell these trash tropes from a mile away. Subjectively, I think Saber/Rin/Sakura of Fate/SN played out more realistically with their harem tropes than Jobless Reincarnations Roxy/Sylphie/Eris. There's the benefit that F/SN are three different universes so each waifu pick is a totally different story. Jobless Reincarnation is on the other hand separated out by many years. But it's bloody obvious that all three girlfriends are going to come back together later for your old school anime triangle drama. I guess that was what I liked with F/SN. The three girls were not yet another cheesy triangle.
vunderba 2y ago
If you're head hunting for polarizing anime with borderline underage sexual objectification, you could have gone with the "That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime" anime - take one look at the clothing (or lack thereof) of Milim Nava. In before people furiously try to rationalize by saying, "Well sure she looks like she's a prepubescent 12 year but ACTUALLY she's 3000 years old", yeah okay sure - but as the saying goes "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...".
- dragontamer 2y ago
  [dead]
- ahazred8ta 2y ago
  "How not to summon a demon lord" has Krebskulm, a tween wearing a postage stamp sized outfit.

Jobless Reincarnation has a lot of fucked-up trashy aspects to it, but it also explores how those things fuck people up, why and how, and goes deep into character development and a realistic depiction of what healing from trauma (and people who haven't healed from trauma) looks like. There are a lot of harem anime out there that do not do that type of deeper character work and function solely as male power-fantasies. See, for instance, Tsukimitchi or Rosario X Vampire That was and still is my point

claudiawerner 2y ago

'Pedophilic undertones' doesn't relate to 'trashy' or 'harem', even if you read the anime that way. In fact, it can be extremely interesting to see something which is so rarely portrayed or discussed in fiction, even fiction for adults. The reality of child abuse is neither solved nor rebuked by depictions or explorations of psychology in adult fiction.

mrsilencedogood 2y ago
I don't even know what this show is, but I can guarantee you any pedo-related stuff in there is highly unlikely to be for the purpose of "depictions or explorations of psychology". Come on, don't try to kid me. It's there for the same reason all the other seinen anime have a ton of borderline softcore porn tropes in them.
- claudiawerner 2y ago
  I don't really know how to respond to the idea that the fact anime includes fanservice means it can't deal with sensitive topics at the same time.
  - some_random 2y ago
    Why is the fanservice sexualized children?
    - mrsilencedogood 2y ago
      I don't know why I even bothered to try to push back, beyond the fact that these kind of "philosophers" plague the anime community. The pattern is very predictable. Tons and tons of ink spilled to try to explain why they're not a pedophile while not doing anything more than distracting from the original point and dithering endlessly. And nobody wants to push back because of it, so they take silence as complicit assent.
    - claudiawerner 2y ago
      In this case, it's not; but even if it were, does that limit the ability of a text to explore interesting themes? Why? I'd recommend reading deeper into the scholarly literature of sexual themes in anime and manga before assuming that fans necessarily interpret 'children' into the text. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639806 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639806
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - notanotheracc 2y ago
        > In this case, it's not; but even if it were, does that limit the ability of a text to explore interesting themes? Why? In this case, it does. You can't have a show about a pedophile's redemption while simultaneously appealing to that demographic. Let's not act like there's any consensus in the "scholarly literature" — if you could even call the writing of some guy with no credentials that.
        claudiawerner 2y ago
        >if you could even call the writing of some guy with no credentials that The researcher I'm quoting (who's by far not alone on writing this topic in his field) is Patrick Galbraith, a researcher and associate professor of cultural anthropology at Senshu University in Tokyo. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=FLmsh_8AAAAJ https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=FLmsh_8AAAAJ

dragontamer 2y ago

So people know: I've chosen a highly controversial anime on purpose to prove that there's anime some people hate and other anime people love. I personally couldn't get very far into Jobless Reincarnation. So I'm on the haters side. But in any case, the controversies of this anime are well known.

Izkata 2y ago
I actually didn't know there was any controversy around it, but this: > I personally couldn't get very far into Jobless Reincarnation. explains your choice. Based on how other modern isekais typically go, it definitely starts out looking like this one is going to go down a similar route, but it really doesn't. The overall character development for the main character is about him figuring out how to relate to others and develop healthy relationships instead of the fixations and fears he started with.
- glandium 2y ago
  The interesting thing about Jobless Reincarnation is that, even though the Anime was a late comer in the Isekai genre, the original work, the online novel, is actually a precursor if not the starting point of the current wave of Isekai works.
- dragontamer 2y ago
  Nah. It more or less went where I expected. It's a modern Fate/Stay Night. It took a lot of trash Isekai tropes but played them straight and dramatic. Like F/SN took your harem tropes and video game stats and crafted a magic system out of it... Jobless Reincarnation starts with panty thieves, sex scenes, voyeurism, a harem of three girlfriends and the tries to reverse engineer a story out of the tropes. It's good for what it is. But it doesn't change that it's fundamentally starting with so called trashy tropes. ------- It's clear that they're setting up a love triangle between the Red Head Tsundere hothead, the quiet traditional wife type, and his hot teacher who is a 100+ year old demon but looks like a teenager. Like, there's more merit to this than maybe I'm making fun of. Because the author tries really really hard to make these situations play out with how a real life person might react to these revelations. But that doesn't change the fact that I can smell these trash tropes from a mile away. Subjectively, I think Saber/Rin/Sakura of Fate/SN played out more realistically with their harem tropes than Jobless Reincarnations Roxy/Sylphie/Eris. There's the benefit that F/SN are three different universes so each waifu pick is a totally different story. Jobless Reincarnation is on the other hand separated out by many years. But it's bloody obvious that all three girlfriends are going to come back together later for your old school anime triangle drama. I guess that was what I liked with F/SN. The three girls were not yet another cheesy triangle.

vunderba 2y ago

If you're head hunting for polarizing anime with borderline underage sexual objectification, you could have gone with the "That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime" anime - take one look at the clothing (or lack thereof) of Milim Nava. In before people furiously try to rationalize by saying, "Well sure she looks like she's a prepubescent 12 year but ACTUALLY she's 3000 years old", yeah okay sure - but as the saying goes "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...".

dragontamer 2y ago
[dead]
ahazred8ta 2y ago
"How not to summon a demon lord" has Krebskulm, a tween wearing a postage stamp sized outfit.