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(1) a16z has a games division? (2) Mixed feelings about lumping all gacha games under the "anime" umbrella based on art style, especially when so many gachas a

(1) a16z has a games division? (2) Mixed feelings about lumping all gacha games under the "anime" umbrella based on art style, especially when so many gachas are original properties (Genshin Impact et al) or spinoffs of non-gacha games (Fire Emblem Heroes, Pokemon Masters). I get why they're drawing the association, so maybe I'm just being a purist for no reason, but in my head it's only an anime if it's an animated show or movie! ETA: Or how some gacha series get popular enough to have bona fide anime spinoffs—I think both Fate and Granblue fall under that category?

dragontamer 2y ago
Fate/SN was originally a porno before it became a non-prono anime before it became Fate/Grand Order. Fate/ is one of the weirdest meta-stories of all time. The evolution of that universe is utterly fascinating to me, more so than the actual story today. The gist is that Nasu always wanted to create a Comic book style shared universe, and that Nasu sees himself as a Stan Lee or George Lucas type who is in charge of a community of writers rather than just writing one singular plot.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > Fate/ is one of the weirdest meta-stories of all time. That reminds me of a not-really-description I read once about Homestuck, basically saying that the many manifestations/spinoffs are too twisty to be worth explaining. BTW, this comment is not a request for clarification, I'm fine with my ignorance on the franchise itself.
- Zircom 2y ago
  Calling FSN a porno because it has sex scenes is like calling Wolf of Wall Street a porno just because it has sex scenes. It's extremely reductive and entirely inaccurate. There's like literally 3 or 4 h-scenes in the entire novel, and collectively they all probably make up less than a few percent of the text/screentime.
  - dragontamer 2y ago
    I'm calling it a porno because said scenes have foreplay, climax and a full frontal nudity moneyshot. It's just 3 or 4 scenes. But they are clearly full on pornographic scenes. They are also completely irrelevant to the story and were removed from later adaptations. --------- I'm mildly convinced that Nasu started with the pornographic market so that his story would be the king-of-porn first, building up a niche within that sub community first. It's highly unusual for pornographic stories to receive the shear detail and writing effort that went into F/SN. Call it the Facebook strategy. Don't aim to be king of all the market, instead aim to be king of some sub-niche first. You can always pivot away later. But you are correct in that the level of detail and character development even in the original novel far exceeds that of any porno. But I argue that this fact was Nasus explicit strategy for growth.
  - RockRobotRock 2y ago
    Read the second sentence on the Wikipedia page.
dotnet00 2y ago
Fate went in the other direction, started as a visual novel and got some very popular anime adaptations, that led to the gacha game being made, which led to some of the especially popular parts of that game's stories being adapted into anime form.
throwanem 2y ago
You're not the target audience of this blueprint for decontextualization into maximally fungible product. It's early days yet. Still plenty of time to get used to reminding yourself of that.
dfxm12 2y ago
2 - I think it's a distinction worth making. Genshin Impact is not anime. That doesn't make it bad by any means, but it does mean that maybe what they're arguing isn't true. Anime is relatively strong now, but I don't think it is either at its peak of popularity (anecdotally, I see more people wearing demon slayer gear than I did bleach gear, but old school DBZ shirts are still most popular) nor at levels that can be described as "eating the world". Of course, the more vaguely East Asian styled cartoons you throw into a pile and squint at, the bigger it looks.
- mattgreenrocks 2y ago
  Similar reaction to seeing FF lumped in there. FF7 in particular might travel in some of the tropes, but I feel like it was pulled in to bolster the game side rather than being a true exemplar. On a semi-related note: A16Z, stay the hell away from Square Enix.
- codedokode 2y ago
  That Chinese RPG game is not anime-based, but definitely anime-styled (probably to appeal to audience of anime viewers or maybe just because anime-styled characters look better than realistic ones).
jsheard 2y ago
> a16z has a games division? They got into games during their Web3/Blockchain/Metaverse phase so you're forgiven for not noticing given that hype train went absolutely nowhere. Now they're all about AI being the next big thing in games, because of course they are.
- lern_too_spel 2y ago
  They're still pushing their Blockchain grifts and supporting political candidates who will look the other way.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  Don't forget about Clubhouse
grogenaut 2y ago
they do, they also keep emailing me and I never signed up for it. and they won't let me unsubscribe. it's wierd.
B-Con 2y ago
Also the Gachas: - Arknights - Azur Lane - Kancolle Just off the top of my head. I share your mixed feelings. On the one hand, I like "anime" to refer to something very specific. I think the world is more confusing when terms evolve and redefine too much. But on the other hand, the Gacha games clearly owe a good deal of their success to the anime elements they copy-pasted, even if the core game mechanics are anime-indifferent. Over time, these lines will get blurred even more as the market maximizes where those elements can be incorporated. The art and story elements clearly have appeal, and they'll probably get incorporated into more and more into media that's not Japanese-produced TV shows. And when those non-animes get adapted into true animes because they're obviously such a clean fit, it feels like the similarity needs to be acknowledged with some a broad umbrella word to cover everything. Which might as well be the word "anime"...?

dragontamer 2y ago

Fate/SN was originally a porno before it became a non-prono anime before it became Fate/Grand Order. Fate/ is one of the weirdest meta-stories of all time. The evolution of that universe is utterly fascinating to me, more so than the actual story today. The gist is that Nasu always wanted to create a Comic book style shared universe, and that Nasu sees himself as a Stan Lee or George Lucas type who is in charge of a community of writers rather than just writing one singular plot.

Terr_ 2y ago
> Fate/ is one of the weirdest meta-stories of all time. That reminds me of a not-really-description I read once about Homestuck, basically saying that the many manifestations/spinoffs are too twisty to be worth explaining. BTW, this comment is not a request for clarification, I'm fine with my ignorance on the franchise itself.
Zircom 2y ago
Calling FSN a porno because it has sex scenes is like calling Wolf of Wall Street a porno just because it has sex scenes. It's extremely reductive and entirely inaccurate. There's like literally 3 or 4 h-scenes in the entire novel, and collectively they all probably make up less than a few percent of the text/screentime.
- dragontamer 2y ago
  I'm calling it a porno because said scenes have foreplay, climax and a full frontal nudity moneyshot. It's just 3 or 4 scenes. But they are clearly full on pornographic scenes. They are also completely irrelevant to the story and were removed from later adaptations. --------- I'm mildly convinced that Nasu started with the pornographic market so that his story would be the king-of-porn first, building up a niche within that sub community first. It's highly unusual for pornographic stories to receive the shear detail and writing effort that went into F/SN. Call it the Facebook strategy. Don't aim to be king of all the market, instead aim to be king of some sub-niche first. You can always pivot away later. But you are correct in that the level of detail and character development even in the original novel far exceeds that of any porno. But I argue that this fact was Nasus explicit strategy for growth.
- RockRobotRock 2y ago
  Read the second sentence on the Wikipedia page.

dotnet00 2y ago

Fate went in the other direction, started as a visual novel and got some very popular anime adaptations, that led to the gacha game being made, which led to some of the especially popular parts of that game's stories being adapted into anime form.

throwanem 2y ago

You're not the target audience of this blueprint for decontextualization into maximally fungible product. It's early days yet. Still plenty of time to get used to reminding yourself of that.

dfxm12 2y ago

2 - I think it's a distinction worth making. Genshin Impact is not anime. That doesn't make it bad by any means, but it does mean that maybe what they're arguing isn't true. Anime is relatively strong now, but I don't think it is either at its peak of popularity (anecdotally, I see more people wearing demon slayer gear than I did bleach gear, but old school DBZ shirts are still most popular) nor at levels that can be described as "eating the world". Of course, the more vaguely East Asian styled cartoons you throw into a pile and squint at, the bigger it looks.

mattgreenrocks 2y ago
Similar reaction to seeing FF lumped in there. FF7 in particular might travel in some of the tropes, but I feel like it was pulled in to bolster the game side rather than being a true exemplar. On a semi-related note: A16Z, stay the hell away from Square Enix.
codedokode 2y ago
That Chinese RPG game is not anime-based, but definitely anime-styled (probably to appeal to audience of anime viewers or maybe just because anime-styled characters look better than realistic ones).

jsheard 2y ago

> a16z has a games division? They got into games during their Web3/Blockchain/Metaverse phase so you're forgiven for not noticing given that hype train went absolutely nowhere. Now they're all about AI being the next big thing in games, because of course they are.

lern_too_spel 2y ago
They're still pushing their Blockchain grifts and supporting political candidates who will look the other way.
reducesuffering 2y ago
Don't forget about Clubhouse

grogenaut 2y ago

they do, they also keep emailing me and I never signed up for it. and they won't let me unsubscribe. it's wierd.

B-Con 2y ago

Also the Gachas: - Arknights - Azur Lane - Kancolle Just off the top of my head. I share your mixed feelings. On the one hand, I like "anime" to refer to something very specific. I think the world is more confusing when terms evolve and redefine too much. But on the other hand, the Gacha games clearly owe a good deal of their success to the anime elements they copy-pasted, even if the core game mechanics are anime-indifferent. Over time, these lines will get blurred even more as the market maximizes where those elements can be incorporated. The art and story elements clearly have appeal, and they'll probably get incorporated into more and more into media that's not Japanese-produced TV shows. And when those non-animes get adapted into true animes because they're obviously such a clean fit, it feels like the similarity needs to be acknowledged with some a broad umbrella word to cover everything. Which might as well be the word "anime"...?