7 ms·

> But what you are missing is that a carrier locked phone isn't worthless, it is worth quite a bit. A carrier locked iphone 14 sells for ~$400 on ebay, an unloc

> But what you are missing is that a carrier locked phone isn't worthless, it is worth quite a bit. A carrier locked iphone 14 sells for ~$400 on ebay, an unlocked one sells for ~$525. A reduction in average selling price is a reduction in incentive to steal, full stop. I'm not sure how you can argue with that. I'm not stating it's 100% effective, I'm not stating that it's worth the cost, all I am saying is that it is a disincentive.

dghlsakjg 2y ago
Because my belief is that the number of thefts doesn't exist on a relatively linear curve, which would have to be true for your position to be correct. My bet is that stealing phones is more like a thresh-hold. Does this crime pay > $x? Then I will do the crime. In this case I suspect that $x is well below the selling price of an unlocked phone. There isn't a gradual dropoff, at least not in the region between $400-$520. I could also argue that carrier locked phones could have a paradoxical increased effect on theft. If the expected value of stealing a phone is lower, the average thief needs to steal more phones to make the same amount of money.
- lazide 2y ago
  Phone theft in areas with predominately iPhones went from ‘very common’ to ‘non-existent’ because of Apple’s remote bricking. In theory there may be a point you’re describing, but in SF for instance people just started looting cars instead of mugging (or snatch and grabbing) phones.
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    Carrier locking is not firmware locking! Carrier locking doesn't disable a stolen phone. It disables the use of non approved carriers on the phone, stolen or not. That's my whole point. Carrier locking used to be standard, even on iPhones, and phone theft was very common too. Carrier locking wasn't a theft deterrent. Firmware locking is a great theft deterrent. A stolen iPhone is basically just a few cheaper used parts, and all the expensive ones are useless.
    - stouset 2y ago
      Both of these tactics reduce the sale price of a stolen phone. One is extremely effective. One is marginally effective. But that still means both of them are effective just to different degrees.
      - dghlsakjg 2y ago
        Yes, but one harms the consumer far more than any possible benefit from reduced theft (again, I would argue that carrier locks don't reduce theft), and the other causes no harm to the consumer while providing a huge benefit by reducing theft.
        lazide 2y ago
        Ok?
        dghlsakjg 2y ago
        So we have a measure that is, at best, “marginally effective” as a theft deterrent by your phrasing and actively harms consumers while actively benefitting the entities that artificially impose it. The only theft it is preventing is other carriers stealing customers from one another.
        lazide 2y ago
        You seem to think marginal == zero. Which is the part that is confusing me.
        dghlsakjg 2y ago
        You seem to think that I have said there is a marginal reduction in theft due to carrier locks. I do not think that is the case at all, and I have said so. I am arguing that the reduction in theft due to carrier locks is 0. You are arguing that it is small (marginal). I am saying that no matter what, the actual cost of the carrier lock to the consumer (as demonstrated by used phone values on eBay), is far higher than whatever marginal benefit you are arguing for. It is a massive net loss to the consumer, and the only guaranteed beneficiary is the wireless carrier.

dghlsakjg 2y ago

Because my belief is that the number of thefts doesn't exist on a relatively linear curve, which would have to be true for your position to be correct. My bet is that stealing phones is more like a thresh-hold. Does this crime pay > $x? Then I will do the crime. In this case I suspect that $x is well below the selling price of an unlocked phone. There isn't a gradual dropoff, at least not in the region between $400-$520. I could also argue that carrier locked phones could have a paradoxical increased effect on theft. If the expected value of stealing a phone is lower, the average thief needs to steal more phones to make the same amount of money.

lazide 2y ago
Phone theft in areas with predominately iPhones went from ‘very common’ to ‘non-existent’ because of Apple’s remote bricking. In theory there may be a point you’re describing, but in SF for instance people just started looting cars instead of mugging (or snatch and grabbing) phones.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Carrier locking is not firmware locking! Carrier locking doesn't disable a stolen phone. It disables the use of non approved carriers on the phone, stolen or not. That's my whole point. Carrier locking used to be standard, even on iPhones, and phone theft was very common too. Carrier locking wasn't a theft deterrent. Firmware locking is a great theft deterrent. A stolen iPhone is basically just a few cheaper used parts, and all the expensive ones are useless.
  - stouset 2y ago
    Both of these tactics reduce the sale price of a stolen phone. One is extremely effective. One is marginally effective. But that still means both of them are effective just to different degrees.
    - dghlsakjg 2y ago
      Yes, but one harms the consumer far more than any possible benefit from reduced theft (again, I would argue that carrier locks don't reduce theft), and the other causes no harm to the consumer while providing a huge benefit by reducing theft.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Ok?
        dghlsakjg 2y ago
        So we have a measure that is, at best, “marginally effective” as a theft deterrent by your phrasing and actively harms consumers while actively benefitting the entities that artificially impose it. The only theft it is preventing is other carriers stealing customers from one another.
        lazide 2y ago
        You seem to think marginal == zero. Which is the part that is confusing me.
        dghlsakjg 2y ago
        You seem to think that I have said there is a marginal reduction in theft due to carrier locks. I do not think that is the case at all, and I have said so. I am arguing that the reduction in theft due to carrier locks is 0. You are arguing that it is small (marginal). I am saying that no matter what, the actual cost of the carrier lock to the consumer (as demonstrated by used phone values on eBay), is far higher than whatever marginal benefit you are arguing for. It is a massive net loss to the consumer, and the only guaranteed beneficiary is the wireless carrier.