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The fording depth thing really makes my point so I am just going to focus on that. You can't really appreciate the Cayenne design unless you are a person that u
by _yb2s 2y ago
The fording depth thing really makes my point so I am just going to focus on that. You can't really appreciate the Cayenne design unless you are a person that uses the vehicle in a way that pushes its limits- and have firsthand experience that other vehicles will fail in those same conditions.
The specs vary a bit, but a 957 for example has a steel spring fording depth of 500mm (19.68") and air suspension depth of 555mm (21.85"). Those specs don't really tell the story though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I pulled up the 2024 Forester owners manual- and it has no factory fording depth- and says to never drive through standing water of any depth, whereas the Cayenne manual has detailed specs on depth under different configurations, and even factory instructional videos on fording technique. Few vehicles explicitly have a factory fording rating depth, and if they do it will be well below the actual physical limits to give a margin of safety.
But looking at the specs ignores the massive engineering differences that make the Cayenne extremely good at fording:
-Triple door seals on all of the doors
-Air tight cabin with continuous positive pressure inside (although personally I keep windows down when fording)
-The differentials, gearbox, etc. are all vented way high up on the vehicle with hoses, through ventilation boxes that pass only air pressure and not water
-The engine intake is mounted at the top front of the engine bay behind the grille, with baffles that allow it to keep water out if moving at the right speed, even if you are much deeper than the intake depth with a bow wave over the hood
-Every electrical connector is completely waterproof and submersible
I was once stuck in deep wet mud half way up the doors in one of these vehicles, and it sat there for ~2 hours before I successfully recovered it, and there was no water in the transmission differential, through the door seals, etc. - something that essentially no other factory vehicle could do, even other expensive offroad vehicles.
Moreover, I have crossed some really deep river crossings- such as the Mojave river in the spring after heavy rains. This was much deeper than the factory rating but just below the air intake level, where lifted jeeps were getting flooded and stranded, and it made it through without drowning. There was a drowned Jeep right next to where I entered, that was waiting for an expensive offroad recovery. I was in a completely stock base model steel spring vehicle, with only all terrain tires added.
Look up "Otis"- a stock Cayenne owned by a friend of mine that has driven it 150,000 miles almost entirely offroad, through some of the most challenging overlanding routes in North America. It is not a high end model, and is unmodified other than tires and a slightly better skid plate.
Some fun videos of the Touareg (Cayenne's VW cousin) operating in deep water:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GawFxOk2rjc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GawFxOk2rjc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFO8viLQ5mA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFO8viLQ5mA
In both of those the water is probably some 35" deep based on going well over the top of the tires.
Now consider that all of this is on a vehicle which also handles like a sports car, and can make good lap times on a race track totally stock- two totally competing engineering goals. It is not the powerful engine options alone that makes it a supercar, but attention to detail for specific engineering goals - to reliably do things other vehicles cannot - from the bottom up. A regular car with a powerful engine is still not a supercar. The Lamborghini Urus and Bentley Bentayga are also both essentially a Cayenne.
- dahart 2y agoWell alright, I believe you that the design and build is superior, and you have more experience with Cayenne than I do. My main datapoint is my buddy who shuttled kids and complained his Cayenne was breaking down a lot and in the shop too often. But if the thing is generally as high end and robust as you say compared to other cars, then the base model sounds like a good deal even at $84k. Maybe I’ll get one someday. ;) I appreciate the links and stats and details.
- _yb2s 2y agoDon't get me wrong- the Cayenne is extremely complex to do what it does, and also has supercar level maintenance costs and reliability issues, even in the base models which basically just have regular VW passenger car engines. The rest of the car is still complex and expensive "supercar parts." They can do unique things, and you pay a huge price for being able to do them- shuttling your kids in something so over-engineered and complex is basically ridiculous- although fun if you can afford it and have other cars as backup. If most of the parts on your car are identical to a Lamborghini Urus which can drive 190mph, none of them will be cheap to fix or replace, even if you have a tiny VW Jetta VR6 engine under the hood. Even just a regular brake job is expensive because the brakes are massive Brembo monoblock brakes, even on a base model.