4 ms·

As I understand it, research done on communities that have banned plastic shopping bags found that overall plastic bag consumption didn't change appreciably. Pe

As I understand it, research done on communities that have banned plastic shopping bags found that overall plastic bag consumption didn't change appreciably. People were in the habit of reusing such bags as garbage bags and whatnot, and when they were banned, they bought other plastic bags to serve that purpose. My own experiences mirror this. Small sample size, but no one I know just throws away a plastic shopping bag after groceries are carried in; they always get reused.

ravenstine 2y ago
When plastic bags in CA began to get regulated last decade, I remember the reasoning being that the bags were floating away in the wind and getting into the environment. Conserving plastic wasn't the major motivator, but perhaps I'm misremembering.
- thghtihadanacct 2y ago
  Before the first ban went into effect I would see plastic bags caught in all the fencing, especially near the railroad. Now I see none and its beautiful. Im willing to let others be inconvenienced to see these gone.
  - dangsucksdick1 2y ago
    [dead]
  - animal_spirits 2y ago
    You're willing to make others pay more for food*
    - thghtihadanacct 2y ago
      id be more than willing to help them find reusable bags. Youre willing to litter the landscape with trash?
squigz 2y ago
I've acquired many, many reusable bags, and countless plastic bags. I also have normal garbage bags to use. At this point, I throw away most plastic bags I get. Otherwise I'd simply be inundated with plastic bags! Anyway I much prefer the reusable (fabric) bags. Much stronger, larger, easier to carry.
- NBJack 2y ago
  Do you have any advice on how to keep the fabric ones clean? I've been concerned about food contamination over time (i.e. raw meats that leak, etc.).
  - squigz 2y ago
    Hmmm... Good point that I should keep in mind in the future :D I would assume throwing at least some of them in the laundry would work well enough, or even just hand washing, but I guess that'll depend on the material itself.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
    You are already well-acquainted with machines that wash fabric.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Is the snark necessary?
      - misswest 2y ago
        Is this sanctimony?
      - dangsucksdick1 2y ago
        [dead]
      - vel0city 2y ago
        When people act like washing fabrics are some mystical and not well understood concept, sure. Or do most people also just wear single-use disposable clothing as well? Should we just assume people don't know how to do laundry?
AlwaysRock 2y ago
> State Sen. Catherine Blakespear, one of the bill’s supporters, said people were not reusing or recycling any plastic bags. She pointed to a state study that found that the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew from 8 pounds (3.6 kilograms) per year in 2004 to 11 pounds (5 kilograms) per year in 2021. It looks like lots of people did toss plastic bags, even the thicker ones, away after one use. I wasnt living in CA but the thicker plastic bags were just thicker disposable bags to many people.
- jchmbrln 2y ago
  I wonder how much of that growth is because the bags themselves are so much thicker/heavier now. It would be interesting to compare count vs. weight. It looks like the new, thick bags are 5x thicker than the old, thin ones (0.5 mils vs 2.5 mils) [0]. 11lb is a lot less than 5x 8lb, so the per-person bag trashing must be drastically lowered, unless weight and thickness aren’t correlated. [0] https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/ https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/
jchmbrln 2y ago
This was my first thought on seeing the title as well. My entire life I and every family member I can think of has used plastic grocery bags for our little bathroom trash cans. I don’t even know what the options are for “real” bags of that size, having never shopped for them. Time to learn, I guess. That said, this could still reduce my plastic use. The old, thin bags were sufficient. The new, thick bags have been overkill since day one. Given that the frequency with which I take out the trash didn’t change when the thin bags were banned, I’m sure I use quite a bit more plastic than before the ban. Maybe bags sold for small trash cans are thinner, and I’ll go back to pre-ban levels of use.
zbrozek 2y ago
Yeah, I stopped getting to reuse plastic grocery bags as wastebasket liners and started buying dedicated liners. And even in the old days when the disposable plastic bags were still available here, I would bring back any bags I wasn't using as wastebasket liners and reuse them until they broke. IIRC, the stated purpose at the time was to reduce plastic bags blowing in the wind. But I didn't see a lot of that before the rules, nor do I see much of it in US places that don't have sun a ban. It seems more correlated to general cultural tidiness than to rules around bags. Japan loves plastic bags and I basically don't see any litter anywhere there. But I did see a lot of them out in the environment in Cambodia and Vietnam.
scoofy 2y ago
The point isn't to reduce plastic use. It's to reduce the amount of plastics that end up in our waterways and the ocean. If everyone was reusing their plastic bags as waste bags... even if people who used plastic bags just threw them away, this wouldn't be an issue at all. The point of this is people don't throw them away, and they tend to end up as litter that ends up in storm drains or in Coastal California, just blow into the ocean. It makes perfectly good sense to want to ban plastic grocery bags in coastal states and keep them in inland states.

ravenstine 2y ago

When plastic bags in CA began to get regulated last decade, I remember the reasoning being that the bags were floating away in the wind and getting into the environment. Conserving plastic wasn't the major motivator, but perhaps I'm misremembering.

thghtihadanacct 2y ago
Before the first ban went into effect I would see plastic bags caught in all the fencing, especially near the railroad. Now I see none and its beautiful. Im willing to let others be inconvenienced to see these gone.
- dangsucksdick1 2y ago
  [dead]
- animal_spirits 2y ago
  You're willing to make others pay more for food*
  - thghtihadanacct 2y ago
    id be more than willing to help them find reusable bags. Youre willing to litter the landscape with trash?

squigz 2y ago

I've acquired many, many reusable bags, and countless plastic bags. I also have normal garbage bags to use. At this point, I throw away most plastic bags I get. Otherwise I'd simply be inundated with plastic bags! Anyway I much prefer the reusable (fabric) bags. Much stronger, larger, easier to carry.

NBJack 2y ago
Do you have any advice on how to keep the fabric ones clean? I've been concerned about food contamination over time (i.e. raw meats that leak, etc.).
- squigz 2y ago
  Hmmm... Good point that I should keep in mind in the future :D I would assume throwing at least some of them in the laundry would work well enough, or even just hand washing, but I guess that'll depend on the material itself.
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  You are already well-acquainted with machines that wash fabric.
  - squigz 2y ago
    Is the snark necessary?
    - misswest 2y ago
      Is this sanctimony?
    - dangsucksdick1 2y ago
      [dead]
    - vel0city 2y ago
      When people act like washing fabrics are some mystical and not well understood concept, sure. Or do most people also just wear single-use disposable clothing as well? Should we just assume people don't know how to do laundry?

AlwaysRock 2y ago

> State Sen. Catherine Blakespear, one of the bill’s supporters, said people were not reusing or recycling any plastic bags. She pointed to a state study that found that the amount of plastic shopping bags trashed per person grew from 8 pounds (3.6 kilograms) per year in 2004 to 11 pounds (5 kilograms) per year in 2021. It looks like lots of people did toss plastic bags, even the thicker ones, away after one use. I wasnt living in CA but the thicker plastic bags were just thicker disposable bags to many people.

jchmbrln 2y ago
I wonder how much of that growth is because the bags themselves are so much thicker/heavier now. It would be interesting to compare count vs. weight. It looks like the new, thick bags are 5x thicker than the old, thin ones (0.5 mils vs 2.5 mils) [0]. 11lb is a lot less than 5x 8lb, so the per-person bag trashing must be drastically lowered, unless weight and thickness aren’t correlated. [0] https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/ https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/

jchmbrln 2y ago

This was my first thought on seeing the title as well. My entire life I and every family member I can think of has used plastic grocery bags for our little bathroom trash cans. I don’t even know what the options are for “real” bags of that size, having never shopped for them. Time to learn, I guess. That said, this could still reduce my plastic use. The old, thin bags were sufficient. The new, thick bags have been overkill since day one. Given that the frequency with which I take out the trash didn’t change when the thin bags were banned, I’m sure I use quite a bit more plastic than before the ban. Maybe bags sold for small trash cans are thinner, and I’ll go back to pre-ban levels of use.

zbrozek 2y ago

Yeah, I stopped getting to reuse plastic grocery bags as wastebasket liners and started buying dedicated liners. And even in the old days when the disposable plastic bags were still available here, I would bring back any bags I wasn't using as wastebasket liners and reuse them until they broke. IIRC, the stated purpose at the time was to reduce plastic bags blowing in the wind. But I didn't see a lot of that before the rules, nor do I see much of it in US places that don't have sun a ban. It seems more correlated to general cultural tidiness than to rules around bags. Japan loves plastic bags and I basically don't see any litter anywhere there. But I did see a lot of them out in the environment in Cambodia and Vietnam.

scoofy 2y ago

The point isn't to reduce plastic use. It's to reduce the amount of plastics that end up in our waterways and the ocean. If everyone was reusing their plastic bags as waste bags... even if people who used plastic bags just threw them away, this wouldn't be an issue at all. The point of this is people don't throw them away, and they tend to end up as litter that ends up in storm drains or in Coastal California, just blow into the ocean. It makes perfectly good sense to want to ban plastic grocery bags in coastal states and keep them in inland states.