4 ms·

If I were Tim, or any others who've been bullied-out, I'd sue for defamation. Members of the WG have issued briefs, on behalf of the PSF, which list the suppose

If I were Tim, or any others who've been bullied-out, I'd sue for defamation. Members of the WG have issued briefs, on behalf of the PSF, which list the supposed infractions that read as the worst sort of libellous yellow journalism. Eg., To equivocate discussing the past difficulties faced by victims of sexual harassment in corps with defending sexual harassment is sickening. Perhaps this group of people have grown up in twitter space where the game is obnoxiously strawmanning and rephrasing another person in order to farm outrage against them (eg., "oh so when you mentioned sexism, that means you're a sexist!"). However this conduct is now on behalf of an organisation formed in law, with legal duties and responsibilities, and now has liability for this conduct that is practically absent on twitter. This is a very serious problem for the PSF. You cannot have a working group releasing a dozen accusations of the worst kinds of bigotry, entirely false and unevidenced (etc.), on your behalf. Punishing your members, and the like. The legal liability here is incredible.

linsomniac 2y ago
That's an interesting idea, but for a variety of reasons I'm fairly sure that Tim won't do that. Particularly not without a legal defense fund or some pro bono legal services secured to back it, but also because his vibe on it largely is "I've been called worse by better". edit: Probably also hard to do since the CoC WG post with all the allegations on it were against an unnamed developer, making it at least an uphill battle.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >Probably also hard to do since the CoC WG post with all the allegations on it were against an unnamed developer, That didn't stop them in my case (https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408/10 https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408/10; contrast https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/).
- mjburgess 2y ago
  Defamation doesnt require you to name the person, only for it to be obvious to a relevant reader who it is. The fact we're all talking about Tim kinda resolves that problem on the face of it. Whether he sues or not is less important than the PSF needing to realise what crazy liability they face for their WG posting defamation this extreme against a person.

linsomniac 2y ago

That's an interesting idea, but for a variety of reasons I'm fairly sure that Tim won't do that. Particularly not without a legal defense fund or some pro bono legal services secured to back it, but also because his vibe on it largely is "I've been called worse by better". edit: Probably also hard to do since the CoC WG post with all the allegations on it were against an unnamed developer, making it at least an uphill battle.

zahlman 2y ago
>Probably also hard to do since the CoC WG post with all the allegations on it were against an unnamed developer, That didn't stop them in my case (https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408/10 https://discuss.python.org/t/im-leaving-too/58408/10; contrast https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/ https://zahlman.github.io/dpo_archive/).
mjburgess 2y ago
Defamation doesnt require you to name the person, only for it to be obvious to a relevant reader who it is. The fact we're all talking about Tim kinda resolves that problem on the face of it. Whether he sues or not is less important than the PSF needing to realise what crazy liability they face for their WG posting defamation this extreme against a person.