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In what way is AWS a monopoly. They have a ton of competition in every aspect of their business.

by rapsey 2y ago

StableAlkyne 2y ago
The FTC is actively engaging in a monopoly case against Amazon: the organization whose job it is to break up monopolies certainly believes them to be one https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/ftc-sues-amazon-illegally-maintaining-monopoly-power https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/... Edit: Amazon, not AWS. Sorry for the confusion!
- rapsey 2y ago
  The description on that page is entirely about the Amazon store business not AWS.
  - StableAlkyne 2y ago
    Oh hell, this is why posting after an overnighter is a bad idea
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
alephnerd 2y ago
Personally, I agree with you. That said, the current argument is that because AWS is part of Amazon at large, it can gain undue advantage by being subsidized by other organizations in Amazon, and forgo profits in order to gain a controlling share in an industry. This is basically Lina Khan's whole argument [0] I personally don't subscribe to this argument as a major reason for AWS's dominance compared to Azure in the early 2010s was because of stronger execution (lots of training sessions, evangelization, some truly cutting edge architecture) and better product-market fit, but Hipster Anti-Trust assumes a bunch of smallish companies competing with each other can result in a similar outcome (hence why VCs like Thiel, Horowitz, and Andressen tended to support scholars affiliated to the New Brandeis Movement) [0] - https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.p...
- rapsey 2y ago
  But you could say the exact same thing about Azure, GCP, Oracle cloud and others.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    Hence why I said I personally don't agree with the New Brandeis Movement argument, and is something that Amazon's lawyers will absolutely bring up. Some of the more "fundamentalist" members of that movement want de facto single product companies, with little to no consolidation/M&A. Hypothetically good if you assume small players can compete optimally, but in action this absolutely means significant inefficiencies, at least in the tech industry because all small players inevitabely try to become large players in order to optimize on margins via economies of scale.
ransom1538 2y ago
Lol. I hope this is sarcasm. They have zero competition and 100% lockins. I would say AWS is a national threat at this point.
- rapsey 2y ago
  Their market share is 32%? Both Google Cloud and Azure are very large.
  - ransom1538 2y ago
    No, AWS market share is 99%. Go to any conference regarding cloud ever. Vendors just laugh at GCP, what a joke. Azure mayyybe 2%.
    - rapsey 2y ago
      https://www.hava.io/blog/2024-cloud-market-share-analysis-decoding-industry-leaders-and-trends https://www.hava.io/blog/2024-cloud-market-share-analysis-de...
rickydroll 2y ago
Look at market share and ease of switching cloud service providers. A rule of thumb is that if you own more than 50% and can dictate prices, you might be a monopoly.
- rapsey 2y ago
  They own 32%
  - squigz 2y ago
    Source, please?
- labcomputer 2y ago
  > A rule of thumb is that if you own more than 50% and can dictate prices, you might be a monopoly. I guess the UK has different laws, but here in the US it works like this: * 50% and below means you are definitely not a monopoly unless there is some weird set of facts than SCOTUS couldn't imagine the last time they considered monopolies. * At some threshold around 60-70% you might be a monopoly, but market share alone isn't enough to prove that. * Around 90% you are presumed to be a monopoly unless you can provide some very good evidence why you are not.
- berkes 2y ago
  The cost of switching is just too high. This is true for their "competion" too. We can see this when researching the books as published to shareholders. When AWS was the "sole" player (first mover advantage) they had insane margins. Then competition stood up: GCP, Azure etc. And grew. Their margin has staid the same. And is roughly similar to that of GCP and Azure. Which means they either have secret gentlements agreement over pricing (highly illegal, not likely, the risk is just too high) or there's other mechanisms at play that allow them to keep dictating the price. Cost of switching is very likely such a mechanism. They lure you "on board" then once you start feeling the pain of the high margins, there's simply no way you can move to a competitor with lower margins - either that competitor isn't one really (Digital Ocean, OVH, Linode) or these competitors aren't competing on your margin (GCP, Azure) and have similar margins.
berkes 2y ago
The parent article literally says > In a summary of evidence given to UK watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA), AWS denies that customers face any difficulty in switching from its platform. This CMA was investigating amazon's possible monopoly on cloud. So, this whole thing started rolling exactly because authorities are asking the exact same questions as you "In what way is AWS a monopoly." and in doing so, see enough leads to at least ask for reports and AWS's reply.
snapplebobapple 2y ago
it's not, it's an oligopoly. In corporate it's basically them, microsoft, kind of google and then a tiny sliver of the market is filled with a whole bunch of wannabes.

In what way is AWS a monopoly. They have a ton of competition in every aspect of their business.

by rapsey 2y ago

In what way is AWS a monopoly. They have a ton of competition in every aspect of their business.

The FTC is actively engaging in a monopoly case against Amazon: the organization whose job it is to break up monopolies certainly believes them to be one https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/ftc-sues-amazon-illegally-maintaining-monopoly-power https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/... Edit: Amazon, not AWS. Sorry for the confusion!

rapsey 2y ago
The description on that page is entirely about the Amazon store business not AWS.
- StableAlkyne 2y ago
  Oh hell, this is why posting after an overnighter is a bad idea
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

alephnerd 2y ago

Personally, I agree with you. That said, the current argument is that because AWS is part of Amazon at large, it can gain undue advantage by being subsidized by other organizations in Amazon, and forgo profits in order to gain a controlling share in an industry. This is basically Lina Khan's whole argument [0] I personally don't subscribe to this argument as a major reason for AWS's dominance compared to Azure in the early 2010s was because of stronger execution (lots of training sessions, evangelization, some truly cutting edge architecture) and better product-market fit, but Hipster Anti-Trust assumes a bunch of smallish companies competing with each other can result in a similar outcome (hence why VCs like Thiel, Horowitz, and Andressen tended to support scholars affiliated to the New Brandeis Movement) [0] - https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf https://www.yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.p...

rapsey 2y ago
But you could say the exact same thing about Azure, GCP, Oracle cloud and others.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Hence why I said I personally don't agree with the New Brandeis Movement argument, and is something that Amazon's lawyers will absolutely bring up. Some of the more "fundamentalist" members of that movement want de facto single product companies, with little to no consolidation/M&A. Hypothetically good if you assume small players can compete optimally, but in action this absolutely means significant inefficiencies, at least in the tech industry because all small players inevitabely try to become large players in order to optimize on margins via economies of scale.

ransom1538 2y ago

Lol. I hope this is sarcasm. They have zero competition and 100% lockins. I would say AWS is a national threat at this point.

rapsey 2y ago
Their market share is 32%? Both Google Cloud and Azure are very large.
- ransom1538 2y ago
  No, AWS market share is 99%. Go to any conference regarding cloud ever. Vendors just laugh at GCP, what a joke. Azure mayyybe 2%.
  - rapsey 2y ago
    https://www.hava.io/blog/2024-cloud-market-share-analysis-decoding-industry-leaders-and-trends https://www.hava.io/blog/2024-cloud-market-share-analysis-de...

rickydroll 2y ago

Look at market share and ease of switching cloud service providers. A rule of thumb is that if you own more than 50% and can dictate prices, you might be a monopoly.

rapsey 2y ago
They own 32%
- squigz 2y ago
  Source, please?
labcomputer 2y ago
> A rule of thumb is that if you own more than 50% and can dictate prices, you might be a monopoly. I guess the UK has different laws, but here in the US it works like this: * 50% and below means you are definitely not a monopoly unless there is some weird set of facts than SCOTUS couldn't imagine the last time they considered monopolies. * At some threshold around 60-70% you might be a monopoly, but market share alone isn't enough to prove that. * Around 90% you are presumed to be a monopoly unless you can provide some very good evidence why you are not.
berkes 2y ago
The cost of switching is just too high. This is true for their "competion" too. We can see this when researching the books as published to shareholders. When AWS was the "sole" player (first mover advantage) they had insane margins. Then competition stood up: GCP, Azure etc. And grew. Their margin has staid the same. And is roughly similar to that of GCP and Azure. Which means they either have secret gentlements agreement over pricing (highly illegal, not likely, the risk is just too high) or there's other mechanisms at play that allow them to keep dictating the price. Cost of switching is very likely such a mechanism. They lure you "on board" then once you start feeling the pain of the high margins, there's simply no way you can move to a competitor with lower margins - either that competitor isn't one really (Digital Ocean, OVH, Linode) or these competitors aren't competing on your margin (GCP, Azure) and have similar margins.

berkes 2y ago

The parent article literally says > In a summary of evidence given to UK watchdog, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA), AWS denies that customers face any difficulty in switching from its platform. This CMA was investigating amazon's possible monopoly on cloud. So, this whole thing started rolling exactly because authorities are asking the exact same questions as you "In what way is AWS a monopoly." and in doing so, see enough leads to at least ask for reports and AWS's reply.

snapplebobapple 2y ago

it's not, it's an oligopoly. In corporate it's basically them, microsoft, kind of google and then a tiny sliver of the market is filled with a whole bunch of wannabes.