5 ms·

Is there? What storage?

by dageshi 2y ago

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
Batteries?
- Moldoteck 2y ago
  lol, look at California and how much it imports & used gas. And that's WITH a nuclear plant. Same is valid for Germany which is in a worse position due to dunkelflauten
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    I am not sure what your point is honestly. Batteries are a very viable option for storage, competing cost wise with pump storage which has been in use for decades. > Same is valid for Germany which is in a worse position due to dunkelflauten Even existing storage solutions in Germany are already sufficient for the present day electricity network and build-out is progressing rapidly. The time for a nuclear build out was 20 years ago. We missed that window, now other technologies will prevail.
    - Moldoteck 2y ago
      How are these sufficient when Germany still bumps coal, gas and imports in off peak hours? The question isn't if you can build them, the question is how much storage do you need and the cost. Like how much storage does Germany need for dunkelflauten? Are there any estimations?
      - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
        > How are these sufficient when Germany still bumps coal, gas and imports in off peak hours? Because they bump coal, gas and imports in peak hours. > The question isn't if you can build them, the question is how much storage do you need and the cost. Like how much storage does Germany need for dunkelflauten? Are there any estimations? I suppose you did not spend a lot of time researching this. That can be easily found by mere googling.
        Moldoteck 2y ago
        Um... No, Germany bumps them in offpeak hours https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE?lang=en https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE?lang=en You can also check their imports. Sorry, I'm quite bad at googling, may you show me what you found regarding this topic? I mean how much energy storage does Germany need to not use fossils and to not import from neighbor states with fossil generation?
davedx 2y ago
https://www.energy-storage.news/massive-growth-potential-continues-for-battery-storage-in-uk-and-ireland-co-location-emerging/ https://www.energy-storage.news/massive-growth-potential-con... > The energy storage market in the UK is currently experiencing substantial growth, as evidenced by the current operational capacity of 4.6GW/5.9GWh, projected to increase to 7.4GW/11.6GWh by the end of 2024.
- Moldoteck 2y ago
  "4.6GW" - that means that after 1h the 4.6GW are gone?
  - matt-p 2y ago
    no, 5.9GWh, so after 1 hour at 4.6GW we could do another hour at 1.3 GW (or another 16 Mins at 4.6HW) ~76 mins at 4.6GW.
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      Too bad the nights a little bit more than 76 minutes.
      - matt-p 2y ago
        Indeed. We can only have a small amount of solar, but wind keeps blowing at night, Nucular continues, biomas too. The gap we need to bridge most urgently is turning off gas generation. Take a look here, https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/historical https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/historical the majority of "turning off gas" is daytime demand that needs to be covered.
        littlestymaar 2y ago
        > wind keeps blowing at night But stops during anticyclones, which can last several weeks (that makes it completely unfeasible to use wind power with gas as a backup, because there's no way we can build several weeks worth of storage). > Nucular continues The problem is that nuclear plants cost is roughly the same no matter if they produce or not, so nuclear + solar is strictly costlier than just nuclear. Solar in a country as cloudy and rainy as the UK, and one that is so far north it gets very long nights in winter, doesn't make make any sense whatsoever.

Is there? What storage?

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

Batteries?

Moldoteck 2y ago
lol, look at California and how much it imports & used gas. And that's WITH a nuclear plant. Same is valid for Germany which is in a worse position due to dunkelflauten
- the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
  I am not sure what your point is honestly. Batteries are a very viable option for storage, competing cost wise with pump storage which has been in use for decades. > Same is valid for Germany which is in a worse position due to dunkelflauten Even existing storage solutions in Germany are already sufficient for the present day electricity network and build-out is progressing rapidly. The time for a nuclear build out was 20 years ago. We missed that window, now other technologies will prevail.
  - Moldoteck 2y ago
    How are these sufficient when Germany still bumps coal, gas and imports in off peak hours? The question isn't if you can build them, the question is how much storage do you need and the cost. Like how much storage does Germany need for dunkelflauten? Are there any estimations?
    - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
      > How are these sufficient when Germany still bumps coal, gas and imports in off peak hours? Because they bump coal, gas and imports in peak hours. > The question isn't if you can build them, the question is how much storage do you need and the cost. Like how much storage does Germany need for dunkelflauten? Are there any estimations? I suppose you did not spend a lot of time researching this. That can be easily found by mere googling.
      - Moldoteck 2y ago
        Um... No, Germany bumps them in offpeak hours https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE?lang=en https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE?lang=en You can also check their imports. Sorry, I'm quite bad at googling, may you show me what you found regarding this topic? I mean how much energy storage does Germany need to not use fossils and to not import from neighbor states with fossil generation?

davedx 2y ago

https://www.energy-storage.news/massive-growth-potential-continues-for-battery-storage-in-uk-and-ireland-co-location-emerging/ https://www.energy-storage.news/massive-growth-potential-con... > The energy storage market in the UK is currently experiencing substantial growth, as evidenced by the current operational capacity of 4.6GW/5.9GWh, projected to increase to 7.4GW/11.6GWh by the end of 2024.

Moldoteck 2y ago
"4.6GW" - that means that after 1h the 4.6GW are gone?
- matt-p 2y ago
  no, 5.9GWh, so after 1 hour at 4.6GW we could do another hour at 1.3 GW (or another 16 Mins at 4.6HW) ~76 mins at 4.6GW.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    Too bad the nights a little bit more than 76 minutes.
    - matt-p 2y ago
      Indeed. We can only have a small amount of solar, but wind keeps blowing at night, Nucular continues, biomas too. The gap we need to bridge most urgently is turning off gas generation. Take a look here, https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/historical https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/historical the majority of "turning off gas" is daytime demand that needs to be covered.
      - littlestymaar 2y ago
        > wind keeps blowing at night But stops during anticyclones, which can last several weeks (that makes it completely unfeasible to use wind power with gas as a backup, because there's no way we can build several weeks worth of storage). > Nucular continues The problem is that nuclear plants cost is roughly the same no matter if they produce or not, so nuclear + solar is strictly costlier than just nuclear. Solar in a country as cloudy and rainy as the UK, and one that is so far north it gets very long nights in winter, doesn't make make any sense whatsoever.