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Funny, 20 years ago we had hard cased batteries in our cell phones and we could just pull them out. I fully expect Apple to release a phone in the future with

Funny, 20 years ago we had hard cased batteries in our cell phones and we could just pull them out. I fully expect Apple to release a phone in the future with a removable battery and claim it is some incredible invention of theirs when it was Apple that pushed everyone to the non removable battery in the first place.

trollied 2y ago
I imagine making a phone IP68 rated with a swappable battery is not trivial.
- sschueller 2y ago
  All iPhones pre the iPhone 7 were not water-resistant (IP67). The first water-resistant (IP67) Samsung was the Galaxy S5 and it had a removable battery. The Samsung Galaxy S5 was released in 2014!
Arnt 2y ago
20 years ago we didn't have today's battery technology or capacities. AIUI Apple didn't push anyone, Apple would be happy to be the vendor with the longest battery lifetime: If you use a thin foil instead of a hard shekll and glue it into place for stability, of course you have a bit of extra space inside the battery.
- sschueller 2y ago
  > Apple didn't push anyone They indirectly did. The "Free Market" showed that it is way more profitable to sell a shinny skinny phone that many replace instead of fixing after a year. No one cares about what is actually better for the user when more money can be made. Prime example of that is when apple removed the ESC key in favor of a touchbar. That doesn't even address the other issues such as the environment which has an even smaller interest.
  - Wytwwww 2y ago
    > instead of fixing after a year Back in those days phones would effectively become obsolete after a year or two anyway (from the perspective of a significant number of consumers) so I'm not sure that mattered too much. Also there were plenty of Android phones with replaceable batteries available for years, the market just didn't value that compared to the visual and technical design improvements that weren't compatible with user-replaceable batteries. Also modern batteries are generally a lot better. > Prime example of that is when apple removed the ESC key in favor of a touchbar How? Apple tried that, it failed, they recognized their mistake and reverted to normal keyboards i.e. it's an actual case of the free market working as expected and the opposite of what you're claiming. Also how do you think Apple could have made more money by adding the touchbar? Surely it's significantly more expensive than an extra row of keys... Of course it didn't stop Dell going down the same path a few years latter due to who knows what reasons...
    - cryptonym 2y ago
      If it was for the "free market" you wouldn't have usb-c at Apple.
      - Wytwwww 2y ago
        Sure, of course it doesn't always work. Did I imply otherwise? Especially for minor annoyances, design optimizations/flaws like USB-C, glued batteries, no side-loading etc. that don't outweigh the other advantages that specific product has over it's competitors for the overwhelming major of consumer. I personally found Apple sticking to lighting to be a minor inconvenience at most but it might have been different for other people.
        Arnt 2y ago
        I have a cable that'll charge all of my battery-operated devices, except my work phone. My work phone needs a special cable. Is that a middling annoyance, unreasonably annoying or… both?
alphabettsy 2y ago
> Apple that pushed everyone to the non removable in the first place. How so? If removable batteries were favored by consumers it would seem the Android devices that offered them far longer would’ve continued to have them.
- sschueller 2y ago
  The "Free Market" showed that it is way more profitable to sell a shinny skinny phone that many replace instead of fixing after a year. Apple successfully brainwashed consumers via their brilliant ad compains that thinner and shiny is better than usability, longevity and the environment. Samsung and others copied what made more money.
  - alphabettsy 2y ago
    Maybe you’re right. Or maybe people aren’t brainwashed and instead are buying what they want. We in tech, myself certainly included, often have an idea of what people should want or prioritize rather than what they do.

trollied 2y ago

I imagine making a phone IP68 rated with a swappable battery is not trivial.

sschueller 2y ago
All iPhones pre the iPhone 7 were not water-resistant (IP67). The first water-resistant (IP67) Samsung was the Galaxy S5 and it had a removable battery. The Samsung Galaxy S5 was released in 2014!

Arnt 2y ago

20 years ago we didn't have today's battery technology or capacities. AIUI Apple didn't push anyone, Apple would be happy to be the vendor with the longest battery lifetime: If you use a thin foil instead of a hard shekll and glue it into place for stability, of course you have a bit of extra space inside the battery.

sschueller 2y ago
> Apple didn't push anyone They indirectly did. The "Free Market" showed that it is way more profitable to sell a shinny skinny phone that many replace instead of fixing after a year. No one cares about what is actually better for the user when more money can be made. Prime example of that is when apple removed the ESC key in favor of a touchbar. That doesn't even address the other issues such as the environment which has an even smaller interest.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  > instead of fixing after a year Back in those days phones would effectively become obsolete after a year or two anyway (from the perspective of a significant number of consumers) so I'm not sure that mattered too much. Also there were plenty of Android phones with replaceable batteries available for years, the market just didn't value that compared to the visual and technical design improvements that weren't compatible with user-replaceable batteries. Also modern batteries are generally a lot better. > Prime example of that is when apple removed the ESC key in favor of a touchbar How? Apple tried that, it failed, they recognized their mistake and reverted to normal keyboards i.e. it's an actual case of the free market working as expected and the opposite of what you're claiming. Also how do you think Apple could have made more money by adding the touchbar? Surely it's significantly more expensive than an extra row of keys... Of course it didn't stop Dell going down the same path a few years latter due to who knows what reasons...
  - cryptonym 2y ago
    If it was for the "free market" you wouldn't have usb-c at Apple.
    - Wytwwww 2y ago
      Sure, of course it doesn't always work. Did I imply otherwise? Especially for minor annoyances, design optimizations/flaws like USB-C, glued batteries, no side-loading etc. that don't outweigh the other advantages that specific product has over it's competitors for the overwhelming major of consumer. I personally found Apple sticking to lighting to be a minor inconvenience at most but it might have been different for other people.
      - Arnt 2y ago
        I have a cable that'll charge all of my battery-operated devices, except my work phone. My work phone needs a special cable. Is that a middling annoyance, unreasonably annoying or… both?

alphabettsy 2y ago

> Apple that pushed everyone to the non removable in the first place. How so? If removable batteries were favored by consumers it would seem the Android devices that offered them far longer would’ve continued to have them.

sschueller 2y ago
The "Free Market" showed that it is way more profitable to sell a shinny skinny phone that many replace instead of fixing after a year. Apple successfully brainwashed consumers via their brilliant ad compains that thinner and shiny is better than usability, longevity and the environment. Samsung and others copied what made more money.
- alphabettsy 2y ago
  Maybe you’re right. Or maybe people aren’t brainwashed and instead are buying what they want. We in tech, myself certainly included, often have an idea of what people should want or prioritize rather than what they do.