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It is sad that open source is all about foundations and positions now, not about software development. Periodically you see "I am awesome and served on the Ste

by lrhag 2y ago

It is sad that open source is all about foundations and positions now, not about software development. Periodically you see "I am awesome and served on the Steering Council" posts on Stack Overflow. Some of it from people who have never been on the bug tracker, who don't know or ignore the significant social and abuse of power issues in Python. The PSF marketing completely ignores reality: Free developers have been crowded out, chased away, humiliated and libeled and replaced by a clique of true believers. I would not advise anyone to spend significant resources to donate free work to Python. I'd also warn Microsoft employees who are potentially lured in to work on a JIT that they are up against ruthless politicians and should probably better work on C# and F# for their careers.

weinzierl 2y ago
"I would not advise anyone to spend significant resources to donate free work to Python." The Python Software Foundation (PSF) is a 501(c)(3) which means it is for the benefit of the community as a whole. What better form of organization would you suggest? This is already much better than most other open source organizations[1], which are 501(c)(6) and are explicitly for the benefit of their members only, which are usually comprised of the silicon valley behemoths.
- blueflow 2y ago
  I think the issue is less their legal form, but their behavior and the resulting drama. If they are driving away the good developers, some kind of collapse might be imminent. You shouldn't invest anything in that.
  - ensignavenger 2y ago
    An alternative approach is to get involved and drive out the bullies, or better, drive out the bullying practices.
    - glaucon 2y ago
      That is the ideal but the above comment "...are up against ruthless politicians ..." applies. It's my observation that there are people involved who are : very interested in promoting a point of view; only secondarily interested in Python. They have time and motivation to protect their bridgehead. Many others who look at what's going on and hold their nose have other things they would rather be doing ... like developing software.
      - pas 2y ago
        could you please elaborate on those views? also maybe speculate on why this is?
- ktalfn 2y ago
  The Cato Institute is also a 501(c)(3). Foundations can 100% benefit the paid staff even if they do not make a profit.
indymike 2y ago
> It is sad that open source is all about foundations and positions now, not about software development. Actually it isn't. There's plenty of new open source being developed. When a project gets big enough, some kind of formal support structure has to emerge. I can't think of a single time I looked at someone's profile on Stack Overflow and allowed credentials to override working, well-written code. > I would not advise anyone to spend significant resources to donate free work to Python. I'm not part of Python governance, but after over 25 years of writing Python code, it makes me sad that you feel that way. On the whole, the Python community has been awesome online and in person. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I've had a few bad experiences with other open-source projects, and every time, it was really just a case of I had what I thought was a great idea, and the project owners thought differently. Looking back on it, I probably didn't have as great of an idea as I thought I had at the time.

by lrhag 2y ago

weinzierl 2y ago

"I would not advise anyone to spend significant resources to donate free work to Python." The Python Software Foundation (PSF) is a 501(c)(3) which means it is for the benefit of the community as a whole. What better form of organization would you suggest? This is already much better than most other open source organizations[1], which are 501(c)(6) and are explicitly for the benefit of their members only, which are usually comprised of the silicon valley behemoths.

blueflow 2y ago
I think the issue is less their legal form, but their behavior and the resulting drama. If they are driving away the good developers, some kind of collapse might be imminent. You shouldn't invest anything in that.
- ensignavenger 2y ago
  An alternative approach is to get involved and drive out the bullies, or better, drive out the bullying practices.
  - glaucon 2y ago
    That is the ideal but the above comment "...are up against ruthless politicians ..." applies. It's my observation that there are people involved who are : very interested in promoting a point of view; only secondarily interested in Python. They have time and motivation to protect their bridgehead. Many others who look at what's going on and hold their nose have other things they would rather be doing ... like developing software.
    - pas 2y ago
      could you please elaborate on those views? also maybe speculate on why this is?
ktalfn 2y ago
The Cato Institute is also a 501(c)(3). Foundations can 100% benefit the paid staff even if they do not make a profit.

indymike 2y ago

> It is sad that open source is all about foundations and positions now, not about software development. Actually it isn't. There's plenty of new open source being developed. When a project gets big enough, some kind of formal support structure has to emerge. I can't think of a single time I looked at someone's profile on Stack Overflow and allowed credentials to override working, well-written code. > I would not advise anyone to spend significant resources to donate free work to Python. I'm not part of Python governance, but after over 25 years of writing Python code, it makes me sad that you feel that way. On the whole, the Python community has been awesome online and in person. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I've had a few bad experiences with other open-source projects, and every time, it was really just a case of I had what I thought was a great idea, and the project owners thought differently. Looking back on it, I probably didn't have as great of an idea as I thought I had at the time.