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> you are ordering food and drinks, speed is not essentials, if you're in a hurry you don't sit down in a diner/restaurant Honestly if I received poor/slow ser

> you are ordering food and drinks, speed is not essentials, if you're in a hurry you don't sit down in a diner/restaurant Honestly if I received poor/slow service and management came back with this I'd be pretty upset. Especially given a large number of places have an explicit service charge or there is a cultural expectation that this should be paid extra for. You're either trying to solve the problem of service or you're not, it's binary.

peoplefromibiza 2y ago
> You're either trying to solve the problem of service or you're not, it's binary. Do or do not, there is no try They are trying indeed, if they succeed or not is a completely different story. The point is: throwing a QR code at your issues won't solve your issues. > Honestly if I received poor/slow service and management came back with this I'd be pretty upset. I don't understand what you mean, it's probably that I, as a non US citizen, don't understand why people should sit down and enjoy a meal while also being in a hurry, there's no management involved here, it's just my opinion. if I'm in a hurry I'll buy a sandwich or some pizza slice (it has a kinda different meaning here than in the US, but to get you an idea of what I mean)
- PUSH_AX 2y ago
  > The point is: throwing a QR code at your issues won't solve your issues. I believe this to be (generally, but with exceptions) false. On one of my contracts I worked on solving this during covid for a large restaurant chain, they still use the QR system today and there are clear and concrete metrics that tell the story of large improvements to service. > don't understand why people should sit down and enjoy a meal while also being in a hurry You're hyper focused on the ideal situation. You can not be in a hurry and still receive a level of service that makes you feel uncomfortable with the service charge/cultural expectation of the tip for this specific service.
  - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
    > there are clear and concrete metrics that tell the story of large improvements to service Covid is the most disrupting global event of the recent human history I bet it had a quite larger impact than a simple QR code, assuming what you say it's true. > You're hyper focused on the ideal situation Am I? I know that for a diner to serve me at a table it can't take less than 20-30 minutes or I am eating literal dog shit and I honestly don't like dog shit, regardless of the service I am receiving (or worse: I am making the staff uncomfortable by asking them to be quick because I am the one who's in a hurry). It means in total it will take at least one hour, if I don't have that time available I simply do not sit down in a diner. It's as simple as that, the ideal condition it's a dinner that usually takes from 2 to 4 hours. The 10 seconds saved on a QR code assuming that the QR code really saves time it's irrelevant at that point. It is possible that different cultures have different ways of understanding 'service standards'. > expectation of the tip You're hyper focused on your own bubble, in most of the World tips are not mandatory nor common especially for a quick lunch break. And still your answers do not address the larger picture: the staff is there to help you, not to serve you in the as a servant way. They shouldn't, in my opinion, be considered like minions executing what the machine told them to do. That's what Fritz Lang warned us about in 1927. But even assuming that the QR code saves a lot of time, good staff can go a long way, a fast self-service order system where you wait at the table because the place is understaffed it's a worse experience than an understaffed place where at least a real human greets me asking what I want to drink, before taking my order.
    - PUSH_AX 2y ago
      > Am I? I mean, yeah.. You've even done it again. Outlining situations with perfect service. That's great, now think about the original problem statement where service becomes a bottle neck, and no "if you want great fast service just go elsewhere" is not an elegant solution, sorry.
      - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
        > Outlining situations with perfect service What are you even talking about? Are you implying that QR code solutions are optimal for shitty services? > where service becomes a bottle neck this is a textbook example of false dilemma. If service is the bottleneck making the ordering process faster will make things worse, not better. If anything if a place is slow to take orders, I know they'll be late on serving it I can anticipate the problem and go somewhere else, if I already placed the order now I'm stuck. It's the same things happening at McDonalds with ordering booths, your order is very fast, the service is not and you end up wasting a lot of time in line waiting for your number. As one of the error pages of this website states Please stop hammering. It makes the problem worse. Thanks, but no thanks. You're also contradicting yourself here > where service becomes a bottle neck > "if you want great fast service just go elsewhere" is not an elegant solution The "service is the bottleneck but please stay here and wait until we serve you who knows when, after you placed your order" is much worse. At least with staff taking the orders they can straight tell you "we're full, there's a wait list" or warn you that that day orders are being processed more solwly than normal and you can decide what to do. QR code machines will place orders no matter what, but, again, people are not machines and quality has its merits, more than speediness, In my opinion. YMMV
austinjp 2y ago
>> you are ordering food and drinks, speed is not essentials, if you're in a hurry you don't sit down in a diner/restaurant > Honestly if I received poor/slow service and management came back with this I'd be pretty upset. Plenty of places will tell you not to expect fast service for certain dishes or drinks. If you order a cocktail at a bar and complain when it arrives after the cola, you'll raise eyebrows. The confusion between you two in this thread may be partly due to the conflation of 'slow service' with 'poor service', they're not necessarily the same. Sure, if I ordered a cola and was still waiting after the table next to me received their 5 different cocktails, something would have gone wrong. Here's a fun story. The other day, I was in Belgium. We ordered food at a restaurant. While we were waiting I had a beer, my partner had a negroni. We waited... and waited... and waited. Other diners arrived, ordered food, their food arrived, they ate it. And still we waited. After a while we asked a waiter if our food order had got lost. They were apologetic, and pointed to my partner's still-unfinished drink, but said they'd get our food out ASAP. The food arrived rapidly (it was delicoius). What had happened? Well, a negroni is an apéritif, so is drunk before a meal. The staff hadn't been inattentive; quite the opposite -- they were waiting for the apéritif to be finished. Serving the meal beforehand would have been... rude? Undignified, perhaps. And certainly something that all the other local diners would have been well aware of. Sure, it was a leisurely situation, nobody was in a rush, this isn't a daily occurrence, blah blah. Anwyay, I learned a thing about apéritifs. Cultural heterogeneity is educational and enriching in a way that QR codes and social isolation are not.
- PUSH_AX 2y ago
  I'd amend that to being confusion between the accepted norm of service vs poor service. I'm fully aware that there is breathing space in a service, it's not a conveyor belt. Your anecdote is nice. I think another thing to recognise is everyone has different expectations around service time and availability of service. The great thing about some of these systems is you can choose, the one I helped implement is there if you want it, if not your table falls back to classical service, and best of all there are of course still staff around to talk to if you need.

peoplefromibiza 2y ago

> You're either trying to solve the problem of service or you're not, it's binary. Do or do not, there is no try They are trying indeed, if they succeed or not is a completely different story. The point is: throwing a QR code at your issues won't solve your issues. > Honestly if I received poor/slow service and management came back with this I'd be pretty upset. I don't understand what you mean, it's probably that I, as a non US citizen, don't understand why people should sit down and enjoy a meal while also being in a hurry, there's no management involved here, it's just my opinion. if I'm in a hurry I'll buy a sandwich or some pizza slice (it has a kinda different meaning here than in the US, but to get you an idea of what I mean)

PUSH_AX 2y ago
> The point is: throwing a QR code at your issues won't solve your issues. I believe this to be (generally, but with exceptions) false. On one of my contracts I worked on solving this during covid for a large restaurant chain, they still use the QR system today and there are clear and concrete metrics that tell the story of large improvements to service. > don't understand why people should sit down and enjoy a meal while also being in a hurry You're hyper focused on the ideal situation. You can not be in a hurry and still receive a level of service that makes you feel uncomfortable with the service charge/cultural expectation of the tip for this specific service.
- peoplefromibiza 2y ago
  > there are clear and concrete metrics that tell the story of large improvements to service Covid is the most disrupting global event of the recent human history I bet it had a quite larger impact than a simple QR code, assuming what you say it's true. > You're hyper focused on the ideal situation Am I? I know that for a diner to serve me at a table it can't take less than 20-30 minutes or I am eating literal dog shit and I honestly don't like dog shit, regardless of the service I am receiving (or worse: I am making the staff uncomfortable by asking them to be quick because I am the one who's in a hurry). It means in total it will take at least one hour, if I don't have that time available I simply do not sit down in a diner. It's as simple as that, the ideal condition it's a dinner that usually takes from 2 to 4 hours. The 10 seconds saved on a QR code assuming that the QR code really saves time it's irrelevant at that point. It is possible that different cultures have different ways of understanding 'service standards'. > expectation of the tip You're hyper focused on your own bubble, in most of the World tips are not mandatory nor common especially for a quick lunch break. And still your answers do not address the larger picture: the staff is there to help you, not to serve you in the as a servant way. They shouldn't, in my opinion, be considered like minions executing what the machine told them to do. That's what Fritz Lang warned us about in 1927. But even assuming that the QR code saves a lot of time, good staff can go a long way, a fast self-service order system where you wait at the table because the place is understaffed it's a worse experience than an understaffed place where at least a real human greets me asking what I want to drink, before taking my order.
  - PUSH_AX 2y ago
    > Am I? I mean, yeah.. You've even done it again. Outlining situations with perfect service. That's great, now think about the original problem statement where service becomes a bottle neck, and no "if you want great fast service just go elsewhere" is not an elegant solution, sorry.
    - peoplefromibiza 2y ago
      > Outlining situations with perfect service What are you even talking about? Are you implying that QR code solutions are optimal for shitty services? > where service becomes a bottle neck this is a textbook example of false dilemma. If service is the bottleneck making the ordering process faster will make things worse, not better. If anything if a place is slow to take orders, I know they'll be late on serving it I can anticipate the problem and go somewhere else, if I already placed the order now I'm stuck. It's the same things happening at McDonalds with ordering booths, your order is very fast, the service is not and you end up wasting a lot of time in line waiting for your number. As one of the error pages of this website states Please stop hammering. It makes the problem worse. Thanks, but no thanks. You're also contradicting yourself here > where service becomes a bottle neck > "if you want great fast service just go elsewhere" is not an elegant solution The "service is the bottleneck but please stay here and wait until we serve you who knows when, after you placed your order" is much worse. At least with staff taking the orders they can straight tell you "we're full, there's a wait list" or warn you that that day orders are being processed more solwly than normal and you can decide what to do. QR code machines will place orders no matter what, but, again, people are not machines and quality has its merits, more than speediness, In my opinion. YMMV

austinjp 2y ago

>> you are ordering food and drinks, speed is not essentials, if you're in a hurry you don't sit down in a diner/restaurant > Honestly if I received poor/slow service and management came back with this I'd be pretty upset. Plenty of places will tell you not to expect fast service for certain dishes or drinks. If you order a cocktail at a bar and complain when it arrives after the cola, you'll raise eyebrows. The confusion between you two in this thread may be partly due to the conflation of 'slow service' with 'poor service', they're not necessarily the same. Sure, if I ordered a cola and was still waiting after the table next to me received their 5 different cocktails, something would have gone wrong. Here's a fun story. The other day, I was in Belgium. We ordered food at a restaurant. While we were waiting I had a beer, my partner had a negroni. We waited... and waited... and waited. Other diners arrived, ordered food, their food arrived, they ate it. And still we waited. After a while we asked a waiter if our food order had got lost. They were apologetic, and pointed to my partner's still-unfinished drink, but said they'd get our food out ASAP. The food arrived rapidly (it was delicoius). What had happened? Well, a negroni is an apéritif, so is drunk before a meal. The staff hadn't been inattentive; quite the opposite -- they were waiting for the apéritif to be finished. Serving the meal beforehand would have been... rude? Undignified, perhaps. And certainly something that all the other local diners would have been well aware of. Sure, it was a leisurely situation, nobody was in a rush, this isn't a daily occurrence, blah blah. Anwyay, I learned a thing about apéritifs. Cultural heterogeneity is educational and enriching in a way that QR codes and social isolation are not.

PUSH_AX 2y ago
I'd amend that to being confusion between the accepted norm of service vs poor service. I'm fully aware that there is breathing space in a service, it's not a conveyor belt. Your anecdote is nice. I think another thing to recognise is everyone has different expectations around service time and availability of service. The great thing about some of these systems is you can choose, the one I helped implement is there if you want it, if not your table falls back to classical service, and best of all there are of course still staff around to talk to if you need.