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> car drivers are (partially) legally responsible for accidents, even when a cyclist or pedestrian made the error Here in Norway the traffic law states[1] that

> car drivers are (partially) legally responsible for accidents, even when a cyclist or pedestrian made the error Here in Norway the traffic law states[1] that everyone should be considerate, heedful and careful to avoid harm, and this stands above everything else. So you can indeed get (partial) blame even if the rest of the rules and regulations say you did nothing wrong. For example you can't just ram a cyclist or a pedestrian if you have the right of way, but you saw them, or should have seen them, in time to take avoiding action. Having a quick look at the NYS traffic rules[2] as a semi-random point of comparison, I'm assuming most states have something similar, it does say at the start that "no person shall operate a vehicle in a manner that will endanger any person or property". This seems to be similar in spirit but not quite the same. I guess I could see the NY courts could find in favor of the driver where the Norwegian courts would not, depending on how they draw the line of endangering. [1]: https://lovdata.no/lov/1965-06-18-4/§3 https://lovdata.no/lov/1965-06-18-4/§3 [2]: https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/trafrule.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/trafrule.pdf

School-Cotton 2y ago
What the law says is one thing. What actually gets enforced is another. There is almost 0 probability of any consequences for a driver in NY who kills a cyclist, regardless of whose fault the incident was, as long as the driver doesn’t flee from the scene. The US is not really a developed country with stable rule of law in the same way most countries in Western Europe are.
- Cockbrand 2y ago
  It’s similar in Germany, where truck drivers regularly kill cyclists on right turns and get away with a four figure fine and (if the judge has a bad day) a few months of license suspension.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    That is not similar at all. In the US they would not get the four-figure fine nor the license suspension.
  - mettamage 2y ago
    Even if the cyclist has the right of way?
    - sva_ 2y ago
      All the damn time. Here's a recent one: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Radfahrer-erfasst-Lkw-Fahrer-in-Hamburg-zu-Geldstrafe-verurteilt,lkwfahrerprozess100.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Radfahrer-erfasst-Lkw... 2700 Euro and 1 month license suspension. In Germany, you have to cycle extremely carefully if you want to survive.
    - thefringthing 2y ago
      It's often said that if you want to get away with killing an American, first give them a bicycle. Drivers just say "they came out of nowhere" or "the sun was in my eyes" and that's that.
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    Here in Norway, the one crossing lanes has the blame almost regardless. So with a bicycling lane on your inside, you have to be very, very careful. However the exact limits to that are being tested. There's just been a case in front of the supreme courts here[1], where a e-cyclist in a bike lane got run over by a truck doing a right-hand turn in a busy intersection. A similar case back in 2019 ended with 60 days of jail for the driver of the truck[2], though that one seems more cut and dry. [1]: https://rett24.no/articles/dodsulykken-pa-st.hanshaugen-opp-i-hoyesterett-pa-torsdag https://rett24.no/articles/dodsulykken-pa-st.hanshaugen-opp-... [2]: https://www.aftenposten.no/oslo/i/XgJWg7/syklist-paakjoert-lastebilsjaafoer-doemt-for-uaktsomt-drap https://www.aftenposten.no/oslo/i/XgJWg7/syklist-paakjoert-l...
- fooblaster 2y ago
  I don't live in ny. Is this really true, even if the cyclist is in a bike lane?
  - consteval 2y ago
    I mean, yeah kind of. You can weasel your way out of manslaughter trivially. Generally people aren't punished for true accidents.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    Yes. Due to how space is used in the US (with all but a tiny minority of people living in car-centric areas), most Americans view cars as tools and bikes as toys, think the main purpose of roads is driving, and feel that cyclists on public roads are an annoying nuisance. This mentality is a bit less common in major city centers, but by no means nonexistent. So a pro-car and anti-cyclist bias pervades every part of the justice system: police, prosecutors, judges, and juries, and it's extremely unlikely for a driver to be found guilty of anything in an incident involving a cyclist, unless the driver did something overtly malicious like fleeing the scene.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
aqme28 2y ago
New York is actually notorious for lax prosecution when it comes to drivers killing pedestrians and cyclists.

School-Cotton 2y ago

What the law says is one thing. What actually gets enforced is another. There is almost 0 probability of any consequences for a driver in NY who kills a cyclist, regardless of whose fault the incident was, as long as the driver doesn’t flee from the scene. The US is not really a developed country with stable rule of law in the same way most countries in Western Europe are.

Cockbrand 2y ago
It’s similar in Germany, where truck drivers regularly kill cyclists on right turns and get away with a four figure fine and (if the judge has a bad day) a few months of license suspension.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  That is not similar at all. In the US they would not get the four-figure fine nor the license suspension.
- mettamage 2y ago
  Even if the cyclist has the right of way?
  - sva_ 2y ago
    All the damn time. Here's a recent one: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Radfahrer-erfasst-Lkw-Fahrer-in-Hamburg-zu-Geldstrafe-verurteilt,lkwfahrerprozess100.html https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Radfahrer-erfasst-Lkw... 2700 Euro and 1 month license suspension. In Germany, you have to cycle extremely carefully if you want to survive.
  - thefringthing 2y ago
    It's often said that if you want to get away with killing an American, first give them a bicycle. Drivers just say "they came out of nowhere" or "the sun was in my eyes" and that's that.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  Here in Norway, the one crossing lanes has the blame almost regardless. So with a bicycling lane on your inside, you have to be very, very careful. However the exact limits to that are being tested. There's just been a case in front of the supreme courts here[1], where a e-cyclist in a bike lane got run over by a truck doing a right-hand turn in a busy intersection. A similar case back in 2019 ended with 60 days of jail for the driver of the truck[2], though that one seems more cut and dry. [1]: https://rett24.no/articles/dodsulykken-pa-st.hanshaugen-opp-i-hoyesterett-pa-torsdag https://rett24.no/articles/dodsulykken-pa-st.hanshaugen-opp-... [2]: https://www.aftenposten.no/oslo/i/XgJWg7/syklist-paakjoert-lastebilsjaafoer-doemt-for-uaktsomt-drap https://www.aftenposten.no/oslo/i/XgJWg7/syklist-paakjoert-l...
fooblaster 2y ago
I don't live in ny. Is this really true, even if the cyclist is in a bike lane?
- consteval 2y ago
  I mean, yeah kind of. You can weasel your way out of manslaughter trivially. Generally people aren't punished for true accidents.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  Yes. Due to how space is used in the US (with all but a tiny minority of people living in car-centric areas), most Americans view cars as tools and bikes as toys, think the main purpose of roads is driving, and feel that cyclists on public roads are an annoying nuisance. This mentality is a bit less common in major city centers, but by no means nonexistent. So a pro-car and anti-cyclist bias pervades every part of the justice system: police, prosecutors, judges, and juries, and it's extremely unlikely for a driver to be found guilty of anything in an incident involving a cyclist, unless the driver did something overtly malicious like fleeing the scene.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

aqme28 2y ago

New York is actually notorious for lax prosecution when it comes to drivers killing pedestrians and cyclists.