3 ms·

Pretty sure there's some age related effects too. Over the last ~20 years I've gone from being happily able to drink coffee after dinner, through not being able

Pretty sure there's some age related effects too. Over the last ~20 years I've gone from being happily able to drink coffee after dinner, through not being able to drink it after 5pm or so, and now to having the espresso machine automatically shut off at 2:30pm - otherwise my sleep quality plummets. I'm 57 now, I started noticing poor sleep related to late night coffee in my mid 30s. I do got fairly hard earlier in the day though, I've usually had 4 double espressos (somewhere between 17-21g of beans) by mid morning, and usually another one or two before my current self imposed 2:30pm cut off.

jaggederest 2y ago
Yeah it's well known that liver enzyme efficiency declines slightly with age. Also you may unknowingly run into medications that inhibit it, which gets more likely as you age and accumulate chronic issues requiring medication. I'm envious of your 100 grams of beans a day consumption - if I have more than about 10g / one single espresso I'm a wreck for the entire day! The area-under-curve for slow metabolizers is 9 times larger - 3x the duration, 3x the concentration.
err4nt 2y ago
It's so funny but encouraging to read this. I started drinking coffee in college and could easily finish a whole pot, or have 3 Starbucks venti drip coffees in a day, but I was not sensitive to caffeine at all and could sleep right after. It also didn't seem to have that wake-up alertness effect either Then something changed, and now I am sensitive to it like a normal person. It does wake me up after a sip or two I can feel it, and I can easily have 'too much' if I have 2-3 cups in too short of a timespan, so I've had to learn to slow down. Having said all of this, my personal 'last call' is 6pm, with the idea that I will be able to sleep at 12-1am. But if I drink coffee after 6pm I might be delaying that bedtime a little. It will be interesting to learn more about the effects of how much, and how long. Should I be tapering off hours before 'last call'? What is the best 'last call' time in the day and should it be earlier? I'll have to track some of this and figure this out!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ec109685 2y ago
Given caffeine has a half life in the body, couldn’t you have less coffee but drink it for longer in the day and have the same result?
o_nate 2y ago
My problem isn't falling asleep, it's staying asleep. Restlessness at night has become more noticeable as I've gotten older. Cutting down on caffeine, especially later in the day, seems to have helped some. I now have one cup of coffee in the morning, and a cup or two of tea in the early afternoon. This is instead of the two cups in the morning and espresso in the afternoon that I used to have before.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  You might try slow release melatonin. I've found melatonin increases the vividness of dreaming, though.
  - kayodelycaon 2y ago
    Or reduce the dosage. I've had much better sleep on 1mg than the 3+ mg you find most places.
    - cweagans 2y ago
      1mg should really be the max dosage that is available. Most people should take 0.3mg. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know#2__What_is_the_right_dose_of_melatonin_ https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-...
- malfist 2y ago
  Everyone is different, but if you aren't already, and have the time for it, try incorporating more physical exercise into your day. That helped me deal with restlessness at night
  - skirmish 2y ago
    For me personally, exercising makes me wake up multiple times at night and makes it hard to go back to sleep. I already never exercise after 6:00pm, it still happens. Any thoughts why? Update: did a quick search, Reddit says it could be overtraining or dehydration.
Pawka 2y ago
Honestly, I've noticed how sensitive I am to caffeine when I have reduced my caffeine intake. I think that it is important to clean the body before starting to observe, understand, and make conclusions about how a particular thing affects the body. Let it be caffeine, alcohol, or anything else.
dharma1 2y ago
Caffeine metabolism becomes less effective as you age

jaggederest 2y ago

Yeah it's well known that liver enzyme efficiency declines slightly with age. Also you may unknowingly run into medications that inhibit it, which gets more likely as you age and accumulate chronic issues requiring medication. I'm envious of your 100 grams of beans a day consumption - if I have more than about 10g / one single espresso I'm a wreck for the entire day! The area-under-curve for slow metabolizers is 9 times larger - 3x the duration, 3x the concentration.

err4nt 2y ago

It's so funny but encouraging to read this. I started drinking coffee in college and could easily finish a whole pot, or have 3 Starbucks venti drip coffees in a day, but I was not sensitive to caffeine at all and could sleep right after. It also didn't seem to have that wake-up alertness effect either Then something changed, and now I am sensitive to it like a normal person. It does wake me up after a sip or two I can feel it, and I can easily have 'too much' if I have 2-3 cups in too short of a timespan, so I've had to learn to slow down. Having said all of this, my personal 'last call' is 6pm, with the idea that I will be able to sleep at 12-1am. But if I drink coffee after 6pm I might be delaying that bedtime a little. It will be interesting to learn more about the effects of how much, and how long. Should I be tapering off hours before 'last call'? What is the best 'last call' time in the day and should it be earlier? I'll have to track some of this and figure this out!

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ec109685 2y ago

Given caffeine has a half life in the body, couldn’t you have less coffee but drink it for longer in the day and have the same result?

o_nate 2y ago

My problem isn't falling asleep, it's staying asleep. Restlessness at night has become more noticeable as I've gotten older. Cutting down on caffeine, especially later in the day, seems to have helped some. I now have one cup of coffee in the morning, and a cup or two of tea in the early afternoon. This is instead of the two cups in the morning and espresso in the afternoon that I used to have before.

pfdietz 2y ago
You might try slow release melatonin. I've found melatonin increases the vividness of dreaming, though.
- kayodelycaon 2y ago
  Or reduce the dosage. I've had much better sleep on 1mg than the 3+ mg you find most places.
  - cweagans 2y ago
    1mg should really be the max dosage that is available. Most people should take 0.3mg. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know#2__What_is_the_right_dose_of_melatonin_ https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-...
malfist 2y ago
Everyone is different, but if you aren't already, and have the time for it, try incorporating more physical exercise into your day. That helped me deal with restlessness at night
- skirmish 2y ago
  For me personally, exercising makes me wake up multiple times at night and makes it hard to go back to sleep. I already never exercise after 6:00pm, it still happens. Any thoughts why? Update: did a quick search, Reddit says it could be overtraining or dehydration.

Pawka 2y ago

Honestly, I've noticed how sensitive I am to caffeine when I have reduced my caffeine intake. I think that it is important to clean the body before starting to observe, understand, and make conclusions about how a particular thing affects the body. Let it be caffeine, alcohol, or anything else.

dharma1 2y ago

Caffeine metabolism becomes less effective as you age