48 ms·
I am not a member of the Python community, and I know from here and elsewhere that there is a lot of drama (e.g. "the individual who implemented my ban from the
by hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I am not a member of the Python community, and I know from here and elsewhere that there is a lot of drama (e.g. "the individual who implemented my ban from the Python Discourse forum"), so I know there is a lot of underlying context here I may not be aware of.
That said, as someone who does sit on a (non-software related) non-profit board, I got so frustrated by your comment because it included so many uninformed and flat out false assumptions, the same ones I have to roll my eyes over when I hear them directed at my non-profit.
First, it is rare (like extremely rare) for non-profit board members to get paid. For most non-profits, the expectation is that board members donate a considerable amount. The author of the post already commented that board members are not paid, making the underlying thesis of your post ("28 people on payroll") invalid.
The other thing that's frustrating about your post is the basic assumption that "number of paid people on staff = bloat", and it's something that drives me crazy. Sure, on one hand, there can be a lot of bloat (especially with larger nonprofits), and of course there are some nonprofits that are borderline frauds, only existing to funnel money to friends and family.
But getting good people to get a lot of shit done costs money. The vast, vast majority of people who work for non-profits could probably get a larger salary elsewhere - they're not doing it "for the money". And there are a lot of jobs where doing it with volunteers is basically impossible. Most volunteers don't want to do the boring yet critical grunt work of event planning, accounting, etc., and those tasks need to be done.
- zahlman 2y agoI think you have fundamentally misunderstood my argument. "28 people on payroll" is not at all important to my point. The financial report says how much money is spent on salary. The important part is that most of it doesn't go to developers. I don't see bloat because of how many staffers there are. I think funding is misallocated because developers don't get it (rather, they aren't hiring more people that can actually work on Python full time - my understanding is that most core devs have a day job) and because international events apparently run on a shoestring compared to PyCon, which in turn doesn't seem remotely important enough to justify its expenditures. This results, among other things, in an ecosystem where basic PyPI support requests (see e.g. https://github.com/pypi/support/issues/2771 https://github.com/pypi/support/issues/2771) go unanswered for months, and Pip has embarrassing flaws (asking it to download a package without installing it can cause it to run arbitrary code from setup.py - https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1884 https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1884 and many others) that have persisted for almost the entire history of Pip. That said, I do see "bloat" in the social overhead of Python governance, given the proliferation of (volunteer) Work Groups that don't seem to be accomplishing very much. And just to emphasize, I did already describe the PSF as "woefully underfunded", because it is - just like most other open source orgs.