4 ms·

Do you have any sources to back the claim that it is "on purpose"? What solutions are you proposing to help people with mental health issues that are untenable?

cyberax 2y ago
> Do you have any sources to back the claim that it is "on purpose"? Sigh. I can talk about KCRHA (King County Regional Homeless Authority) for a while. It had crossed the line between "incompetent" and "malicious" long ago. > What solutions are you proposing to help people with mental health issues that are untenable? Mandatory treatment.
- x2tyfi 2y ago
  Give some examples then?
  - cyberax 2y ago
    Not doing anything about drugs. Like, nothing. All their policy is "housing first".
- resize2996 2y ago
  What things has it done that are malicious? Medically, what would mandatory treatment look like?
  - cyberax 2y ago
    > What things has it done that are malicious? Ignoring the outcome of putting drug addicts together in housing without any rules. It becomes a magnet for drug dealers within milliseconds, ensuring that if you are not addicted to drugs, you WILL be pretty soon. > Medically, what would mandatory treatment look like? Locked facilities that provide medication-assisted withdrawal, and then attempt rehabilitation therapy.
    - resize2996 2y ago
      Thank you for answering in good faith. This is kinda intractable. It's tough for someone without housing to be a productive member of society. It's tough for an addict to get or maintain housing. It's tough to get sober. It's tough^2 to get sober on the streets. If our goal is to encourage sobriety, I don't think the solution is locking people up. "Physical" withdrawals are short and relatively easy to deal with, it's the other baggage that needs to be dealt with.
      - cyberax 2y ago
        > This is kinda intractable. It's tough for someone without housing to be a productive member of society. It's tough for an addict to get or maintain housing. It's tough to get sober. It's tough^2 to get sober on the streets. That's why we need locked mandatory rehabs. That don't give any choice to addicts. > If our goal is to encourage sobriety, I don't think the solution is locking people up. I don't care at all what people smoke, and I don't think that a sober society should be a goal (FWIW, I'm a teetotaler). It's the particular drugs that are problematic. You just can't live in a society if you're on fentanyl+meth. They are even worse than opium or heroin. > "Physical" withdrawals are short and relatively easy to deal with, it's the other baggage that needs to be dealt with. Sigh. No. Fentanyl is worse than heroin for withdrawals. Even medically assisted withdrawals are deeply uncomfortable. But that's far from the worst part, fentanyl (especially when used with meth) rewires the brain, so normal activities just stop being pleasurable and/or even trigger the drug craving. And it can take years to return to normal. That's why the success rate for fentanyl/meth treatment is something around 5%. Substitution therapy (suboxone/methadone) is also not particularly effective. Canada even tried to give addicts medical-grade prescription opioids ("Safer Opioid Supply" program in BC), and addicts were selling them on the streets to get money to buy fentanyl. It's really, really bleak.

cyberax 2y ago

> Do you have any sources to back the claim that it is "on purpose"? Sigh. I can talk about KCRHA (King County Regional Homeless Authority) for a while. It had crossed the line between "incompetent" and "malicious" long ago. > What solutions are you proposing to help people with mental health issues that are untenable? Mandatory treatment.

x2tyfi 2y ago
Give some examples then?
- cyberax 2y ago
  Not doing anything about drugs. Like, nothing. All their policy is "housing first".
resize2996 2y ago
What things has it done that are malicious? Medically, what would mandatory treatment look like?
- cyberax 2y ago
  > What things has it done that are malicious? Ignoring the outcome of putting drug addicts together in housing without any rules. It becomes a magnet for drug dealers within milliseconds, ensuring that if you are not addicted to drugs, you WILL be pretty soon. > Medically, what would mandatory treatment look like? Locked facilities that provide medication-assisted withdrawal, and then attempt rehabilitation therapy.
  - resize2996 2y ago
    Thank you for answering in good faith. This is kinda intractable. It's tough for someone without housing to be a productive member of society. It's tough for an addict to get or maintain housing. It's tough to get sober. It's tough^2 to get sober on the streets. If our goal is to encourage sobriety, I don't think the solution is locking people up. "Physical" withdrawals are short and relatively easy to deal with, it's the other baggage that needs to be dealt with.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      > This is kinda intractable. It's tough for someone without housing to be a productive member of society. It's tough for an addict to get or maintain housing. It's tough to get sober. It's tough^2 to get sober on the streets. That's why we need locked mandatory rehabs. That don't give any choice to addicts. > If our goal is to encourage sobriety, I don't think the solution is locking people up. I don't care at all what people smoke, and I don't think that a sober society should be a goal (FWIW, I'm a teetotaler). It's the particular drugs that are problematic. You just can't live in a society if you're on fentanyl+meth. They are even worse than opium or heroin. > "Physical" withdrawals are short and relatively easy to deal with, it's the other baggage that needs to be dealt with. Sigh. No. Fentanyl is worse than heroin for withdrawals. Even medically assisted withdrawals are deeply uncomfortable. But that's far from the worst part, fentanyl (especially when used with meth) rewires the brain, so normal activities just stop being pleasurable and/or even trigger the drug craving. And it can take years to return to normal. That's why the success rate for fentanyl/meth treatment is something around 5%. Substitution therapy (suboxone/methadone) is also not particularly effective. Canada even tried to give addicts medical-grade prescription opioids ("Safer Opioid Supply" program in BC), and addicts were selling them on the streets to get money to buy fentanyl. It's really, really bleak.