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The core of fowler's article is, "what is the alternative to ORMs?" - and the answer is there isn't much other than rolling your own. This is not at all analog
by zzzeek 14y ago
The core of fowler's article is, "what is the alternative to ORMs?" - and the answer is there isn't much other than rolling your own.
This is not at all analogous to PHP where there is an abundance of alternatives to it's mediocre design. PHP isn't hated because of its concept - a "web-based scripting language". It's hated because it's done very poorly. Just like a lot of bad ORMs Fowler refers to.
- debacle 14y agoThere is nothing wrong with PHP - it runs multi-billion dollar companies and it is the most ubiquitous language on the web for a reason.
- hzy 14y agoBecause it has near-zero barrier to entry. That doesn't speak highly of PHP as a language, just on how its deployment strategy is designed.
- debacle 14y agoI don't think Facebook or Yahoo chose PHP because it was easy to write.
- Cloven 14y agoyou are incorrect.
- debacle 14y agoYahoo's rationale for choosing PHP: "The short development cycles needed to stay ahead of the competition demand a web-centric scripting language that is easy to maintain and update." http://public.yahoo.com/bfrance/radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon2002.htm http://public.yahoo.com/bfrance/radwin/talks/yahoo-phpcon200... They didn't choose Python, or Ruby, or Java, because none of those languages are as expressive or shut-up-and-get-out-of-my-way as PHP. Just because a high schooler can write PHP doesn't mean it's a toy not also meant for world class engineers.
- Cloven 14y agoPHP is more expressive than python, ruby, or java. I see.
- varikin 14y agoI think that is exactly why Mark Zuckerburg chose PHP when working on TheFaceBook back in 2003 and 2004. It was easy to write and deploy.
- papsosouid 14y agoJust because PHP doesn't 100% doom you to failure, doesn't mean there is "nothing wrong with it".
- zzzeek 14y agothere's a lot wrong with PHP, here's a good place to start: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-de...
- wmil 14y agoIt's success is largely due to it having the correct execution model. The request based execution environment makes iterative development quick and easy. However there are plenty of bad ideas in the language itself.
- brazzy 14y agoFunny you should mention PHP. I suspect that a lot of the ORM hate comes from people forced to develop PHP and witnessing the epidemic of NIH syndrome among its web frameworks, every single one of which seems to come with its own half-assed ORM.