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For me, the MacBook Air happened. My progression was Toshiba Satellite in 1999 and 2002, then HP business line laptop in 2005 and 2008, and then once I tried M

For me, the MacBook Air happened. My progression was Toshiba Satellite in 1999 and 2002, then HP business line laptop in 2005 and 2008, and then once I tried MacBook Air and I could close the lid without worrying the laptop would stay on and overheat in my backpack, I never went back to Windows. Plus it was lightweight and the battery was the most long lasting. I am guessing businesses using Windows used mostly HP/Dell/Lenovo business line computers because they had extensive same day/next day on site support, so the business Windows market went to them, and lots of personal laptop market went to MacBook Air, leaving an untenable smaller, low margin market for non HP/Dell/Lenovo companies. And then some of that went to smartphones/tablets too. And after SSDs hit the market, technological advancement slowed so a new laptop was not that much better than an old laptop, so you could keep using it for 5+ years easy. I typed this on a 2015 Air.

rustcleaner 2y ago
I am not picking on you in particular but want to bring a general point up to readers: Why is it I always read the parent opinion when it comes to laptop shopping, but never the opposite (which is mine): -Bigger -> better -Thicker -> better -Terrible battery life -Desktop CPU and GPU -Blow torch thermal exhaust -Maximum storage and RAM All so I can run lm-studio, having Llama 3 pump out my edgy 4chan shitposts and effortposts for me, within the absolute comfiness of Qubes OS. I couldn't imagine relying on something thin and low powered unless it did very specific things (and, if it can't run Qubes, then it stays offline).
- fragmede 2y ago
  Because what you've described isn't a laptop but a shitty desktop computer. Laptops that large are heavy, which sucks to travel with. Such a monstrosity isn't convenient to throw into your bag and bring with you everywhere all day. If you're not even using it for graphics, get a desktop, install Tailscale, and remote in for your shitposts. Is the opinion, anyway. Nothing wrong with your opinion (or mine), they're just opinions after all, but if I was on my feet all day in the field and needed a laptop, I'd rather something small and light with a long battery life. If I wanted something luggable, I'd go for a usb-c monitor and as small a desktop chassis as would fit a proper GPU inside of a mobile one. But dealing with the cables for that would get old real quick, so a laptop like you describe would be my pick in those circumstances. Eg my friend's a VJ and performs at random clubs and a gaming laptop like you described is the most appropriate device.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Because the magnitude of demand similar to yours is so low, that I doubt many manufacturers can exist profitably in that space, hence Toshiba and others exiting the market.
- pezezin 2y ago
  You want a gaming laptop.
- lproven 2y ago
  I agree. I am typing on a Macbook Air but I don't like it much. Too thin, terrible keyboard, terrible buttonless trackpad. It has almost no ports and no expansion. There's no easy way to middle-click without addons. The only reason I use it is its battery life. Work provided it; it's not mine and I'd not choose one myself. For my own, I want a big thick chunky thing with 3 physical mouse buttons, lots of ports, a swappable (and ideally hot swappable) battery and ideally 2 of them. There's a space for thin'n'light, but there are next to no commercial options for those who want fat'n'flexible.
- kbelder 2y ago
  I absolutely agree. There are such clear benefits to thicker and heavier laptops. Drawbacks as well, obviously, but it is crazy how lopsided the market seems to be in favor of compactness, even at the cost of power, battery, and reliability. Same applies to phones.
underlipton 2y ago
Having worked at an electronics retailer, I can tell you that "lots" is doing some heavy-lifting in terms of characterizing how much of the laptop market is taken up by Macbooks, let alone the Air, specifically. Certainly, many college students wouldn't be caught dead with a Windows computer, but most people were happy to walk out with something half the price of a Mac, particularly when they're far more used to Windows at school and work than OS X. Acer and Asus were beginning to take up a decent portion of our sales by the time I left.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  MacBook Airs are cheap, in my opinion. I spent $900 on mine 9 years ago. The amortized cost over its lifetime is very competitive with even the cheapest Windows laptops. Even now, an M3 13in with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD is only $1,300. An M3 13in with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is $900, and that would be good enough for 90% of people for 5+ years easy. https://www.costco.com/macbook-air-laptop-13-inch---apple-m3-chip%2c-8-core-cpu%2c-10-core-gpu%2c-16gb-memory%2c-512gb-ssd-storage.product.4000225217.html?sh=true&nf=true https://www.costco.com/macbook-air-laptop-13-inch---apple-m3...
  - underlipton 2y ago
    And (what to most consumers seems like) an equivalent Windows machine can be had for less than half that. After 2.5 years, you can upgrade. This argument has been had ad nauseum; it's not interesting anymore. I just wanted to point out what seemed like a mistake in your analysis re: sales. If you'd like to discuss that, that's fine.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      >After 2.5 years, you can upgrade. This is a huge drawback for most people. I don’t want to “upgrade”, and spend time and effort transferring to new devices. I want the device I have to work for as long as possible.
      - underlipton 2y ago

rustcleaner 2y ago

I am not picking on you in particular but want to bring a general point up to readers: Why is it I always read the parent opinion when it comes to laptop shopping, but never the opposite (which is mine): -Bigger -> better -Thicker -> better -Terrible battery life -Desktop CPU and GPU -Blow torch thermal exhaust -Maximum storage and RAM All so I can run lm-studio, having Llama 3 pump out my edgy 4chan shitposts and effortposts for me, within the absolute comfiness of Qubes OS. I couldn't imagine relying on something thin and low powered unless it did very specific things (and, if it can't run Qubes, then it stays offline).

fragmede 2y ago
Because what you've described isn't a laptop but a shitty desktop computer. Laptops that large are heavy, which sucks to travel with. Such a monstrosity isn't convenient to throw into your bag and bring with you everywhere all day. If you're not even using it for graphics, get a desktop, install Tailscale, and remote in for your shitposts. Is the opinion, anyway. Nothing wrong with your opinion (or mine), they're just opinions after all, but if I was on my feet all day in the field and needed a laptop, I'd rather something small and light with a long battery life. If I wanted something luggable, I'd go for a usb-c monitor and as small a desktop chassis as would fit a proper GPU inside of a mobile one. But dealing with the cables for that would get old real quick, so a laptop like you describe would be my pick in those circumstances. Eg my friend's a VJ and performs at random clubs and a gaming laptop like you described is the most appropriate device.
lotsofpulp 2y ago
Because the magnitude of demand similar to yours is so low, that I doubt many manufacturers can exist profitably in that space, hence Toshiba and others exiting the market.
pezezin 2y ago
You want a gaming laptop.
lproven 2y ago
I agree. I am typing on a Macbook Air but I don't like it much. Too thin, terrible keyboard, terrible buttonless trackpad. It has almost no ports and no expansion. There's no easy way to middle-click without addons. The only reason I use it is its battery life. Work provided it; it's not mine and I'd not choose one myself. For my own, I want a big thick chunky thing with 3 physical mouse buttons, lots of ports, a swappable (and ideally hot swappable) battery and ideally 2 of them. There's a space for thin'n'light, but there are next to no commercial options for those who want fat'n'flexible.
kbelder 2y ago
I absolutely agree. There are such clear benefits to thicker and heavier laptops. Drawbacks as well, obviously, but it is crazy how lopsided the market seems to be in favor of compactness, even at the cost of power, battery, and reliability. Same applies to phones.

underlipton 2y ago

Having worked at an electronics retailer, I can tell you that "lots" is doing some heavy-lifting in terms of characterizing how much of the laptop market is taken up by Macbooks, let alone the Air, specifically. Certainly, many college students wouldn't be caught dead with a Windows computer, but most people were happy to walk out with something half the price of a Mac, particularly when they're far more used to Windows at school and work than OS X. Acer and Asus were beginning to take up a decent portion of our sales by the time I left.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
MacBook Airs are cheap, in my opinion. I spent $900 on mine 9 years ago. The amortized cost over its lifetime is very competitive with even the cheapest Windows laptops. Even now, an M3 13in with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD is only $1,300. An M3 13in with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is $900, and that would be good enough for 90% of people for 5+ years easy. https://www.costco.com/macbook-air-laptop-13-inch---apple-m3-chip%2c-8-core-cpu%2c-10-core-gpu%2c-16gb-memory%2c-512gb-ssd-storage.product.4000225217.html?sh=true&nf=true https://www.costco.com/macbook-air-laptop-13-inch---apple-m3...
- underlipton 2y ago
  And (what to most consumers seems like) an equivalent Windows machine can be had for less than half that. After 2.5 years, you can upgrade. This argument has been had ad nauseum; it's not interesting anymore. I just wanted to point out what seemed like a mistake in your analysis re: sales. If you'd like to discuss that, that's fine.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    >After 2.5 years, you can upgrade. This is a huge drawback for most people. I don’t want to “upgrade”, and spend time and effort transferring to new devices. I want the device I have to work for as long as possible.
    - underlipton 2y ago