4 ms·

Why would humans be interested in non-human civilization superseding theirs?

by hawski 2y ago

atemerev 2y ago
Curiosity. Intellectual pursuits. Pride of creating something better. Why would humans be interested in raising children smarter than their parents?
- mpweiher 2y ago
  Because they are their children...and also humans?
  - atemerev 2y ago
    Do you prefer a dumb citizen of your own country to a genius foreigner? I do not. I don’t care about the form. I care about intelligence.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Most people care more for those closer to them. Distinctions such as "are they foreign" can be part of that, but so too can denomination, political preference, sports team. We evolved to care for our young, and co-evolved with dogs and cats to like them too; AI can hijack that, become a drug dealer selling endogenous dopamine and oxytocin — it will feel good while being fake, just like exogenous drugs. But once we can truly engineer minds, deliberately… we're not ready for what that does to our concept of "free will" amongst other things.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        Curing addiction with ultrasound, non-invasive brain surgery. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/11/02/addiction-ultrasound-therapy-cocaine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/11/02/addiction...
        ben_w 2y ago
        Ultrasound is as exogenous as the drugs, regardless of if that works or is as much a misunderstanding of the research as the cancer cures I've been seeing reported since I started paying attention aged 10.
        fragmede 2y ago
        How long ago is that? Cancer covers a huge amount of ground, and if you don't think surviability rates have improved in the few decades, you're not paying attention.
        ben_w 2y ago
        I'm not saying that, I'm saying newspapers often treat every breakthrough as though it's the last one we need, irregardless of the quality of the study, the magnitude of the effect, if it was only in mice (or worse, in a cell culture), if it already existed, if it was reproducible, if it has side effects, etc. — sometimes you can even turn a few pages in the same edition and find the same paper saying some common item both causes and cures cancer. But to answer your question, when I was 10 it was 1993/4 and the news was "particle beams to target tumours without surgery" or similar, even though Therac-25 predates my birth.
      - atemerev 2y ago
        Well, this evolutionary assumption is a heuristic, to be constantly verified and doubted by the mind. You can have an abusive family, and you need to escape it the same way you would escape any other abuser. You can have a brilliant human being belonging to another race or nation, and you need to evaluate them according to their brilliance, not prejudices. As of free will — our own free will emerges from a very physical combination of electric impulses and chemical gradients. This means it might also emerge from other material representations, and perhaps better than ours.
    - mihaic 2y ago
      Put a Nobel prize winner on the proverbial trolley tracks, and there are 10-20 close family and friends I'd choose to save before them. Universalism is more fair, but it's suicidal for a culture to think like this.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      Tell that to your wife/husband...
paulsutter 2y ago
Given that evolution continues, don’t we assume that’s been happening for millions of years? Do you have any argument why evolution should stop going forward?
- mihaic 2y ago
  This is not evolution. This literally is intelligent design.
  - wonwonwonwon 2y ago
    ...maybe related "meme", (Sry i have no direct link): https://i.postimg.cc/jKzqrH48/50y-intelligent-design-you-saied-questionmark.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/jKzqrH48/50y-intelligent-design-you-sai... regards...
  - paulsutter 2y ago
    There’s a whole lot of “try it and see what works” going on. And perhaps this is our purpose, as the butterfly goes through stages
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  You know evolution can lead to a lot of dead ends. Just because something is evolving does not mean it is going to be better at surviving. https://www.scq.ubc.ca/evolutionary-dead-ends/ https://www.scq.ubc.ca/evolutionary-dead-ends/

Why would humans be interested in non-human civilization superseding theirs?

by hawski 2y ago

Why would humans be interested in non-human civilization superseding theirs?

Curiosity. Intellectual pursuits. Pride of creating something better. Why would humans be interested in raising children smarter than their parents?

mpweiher 2y ago
Because they are their children...and also humans?
- atemerev 2y ago
  Do you prefer a dumb citizen of your own country to a genius foreigner? I do not. I don’t care about the form. I care about intelligence.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Most people care more for those closer to them. Distinctions such as "are they foreign" can be part of that, but so too can denomination, political preference, sports team. We evolved to care for our young, and co-evolved with dogs and cats to like them too; AI can hijack that, become a drug dealer selling endogenous dopamine and oxytocin — it will feel good while being fake, just like exogenous drugs. But once we can truly engineer minds, deliberately… we're not ready for what that does to our concept of "free will" amongst other things.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Curing addiction with ultrasound, non-invasive brain surgery. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/11/02/addiction-ultrasound-therapy-cocaine/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/11/02/addiction...
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Ultrasound is as exogenous as the drugs, regardless of if that works or is as much a misunderstanding of the research as the cancer cures I've been seeing reported since I started paying attention aged 10.
        fragmede 2y ago
        How long ago is that? Cancer covers a huge amount of ground, and if you don't think surviability rates have improved in the few decades, you're not paying attention.
        ben_w 2y ago
        I'm not saying that, I'm saying newspapers often treat every breakthrough as though it's the last one we need, irregardless of the quality of the study, the magnitude of the effect, if it was only in mice (or worse, in a cell culture), if it already existed, if it was reproducible, if it has side effects, etc. — sometimes you can even turn a few pages in the same edition and find the same paper saying some common item both causes and cures cancer. But to answer your question, when I was 10 it was 1993/4 and the news was "particle beams to target tumours without surgery" or similar, even though Therac-25 predates my birth.
    - atemerev 2y ago
      Well, this evolutionary assumption is a heuristic, to be constantly verified and doubted by the mind. You can have an abusive family, and you need to escape it the same way you would escape any other abuser. You can have a brilliant human being belonging to another race or nation, and you need to evaluate them according to their brilliance, not prejudices. As of free will — our own free will emerges from a very physical combination of electric impulses and chemical gradients. This means it might also emerge from other material representations, and perhaps better than ours.
  - mihaic 2y ago
    Put a Nobel prize winner on the proverbial trolley tracks, and there are 10-20 close family and friends I'd choose to save before them. Universalism is more fair, but it's suicidal for a culture to think like this.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    Tell that to your wife/husband...

paulsutter 2y ago

Given that evolution continues, don’t we assume that’s been happening for millions of years? Do you have any argument why evolution should stop going forward?

mihaic 2y ago
This is not evolution. This literally is intelligent design.
- wonwonwonwon 2y ago
  ...maybe related "meme", (Sry i have no direct link): https://i.postimg.cc/jKzqrH48/50y-intelligent-design-you-saied-questionmark.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/jKzqrH48/50y-intelligent-design-you-sai... regards...
- paulsutter 2y ago
  There’s a whole lot of “try it and see what works” going on. And perhaps this is our purpose, as the butterfly goes through stages
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
You know evolution can lead to a lot of dead ends. Just because something is evolving does not mean it is going to be better at surviving. https://www.scq.ubc.ca/evolutionary-dead-ends/ https://www.scq.ubc.ca/evolutionary-dead-ends/