3 ms·

Thats a lot of red flags to put on your landing page. Modern C++ standards are the bare minimum you should enforce in terms of software safety and correctness.

tialaramex 2y ago
"Modern C++" is the same rewrite costs as if you Rewrote It In Rust, except that at the end you still have C++ and are still on the same treadmill and will be doing this again next time. It makes sense for C++ trainers to promote this, it's repeat business. Every three years there will be another iteration of "Modern C++" (it seems like some want to now call C++ 20 and C++ 23 "Contemporary C++" instead of "Modern C++" but it's the same again) and you're back to do more rewrites.
- qsdf38100 2y ago
  That’s a weird take. I would expect it not being the same cost to do a rewrite in Rust, like, not at all. You can do it incrementally with C++, not to mention not needing to hire a team of rust developers. I don’t think you want to let a team of C++ devs that are just learning Rust do a full rewrite as their first big project experience. Also, when switching from, say, C++20 to C++23, thinking it’s the same amount of work as a full rewrite in Rust is laughable.
- spacechild1 2y ago
  > Modern C++" is the same rewrite costs as if you Rewrote It In Rust Certainly not! The update can be done incrementally as pre-modern C++ is (almost) fully compatible with modern C++.
- delfinom 2y ago
  [flagged]
- cue_the_strings 2y ago
  This couldn't be farther from the truth. Not only will a Rust rewrite take 5-20x longer, you'll also be supporting 2 versions (C++ and Rust) for a long time, while doing the rewrite and migration, and that will eat up a lot of dev hours. I've done incremental C++ migrations and they are not nearly as complex or stressful, especially when you leverage libtooling or Python bindings to write AST-rewriting scripts for those large refactorings.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    > Not only will a Rust rewrite take 5-20x longer If "Modern C++" really was a static target you could imagine performing the transition to "Modern C++" and you're done. If that existed it would compare to the Rust rewrite, maybe it would be 5-20x faster. But "Modern C++" isn't a static target, if we understand "Modern C++" this way (say, as C++ 17) obviously it's unsuitable for such safety of life software. Instead the "Modern C++" transition is like a worse version of one of Zero's paradoxes. We never arrive at our intended destination and are always instead asked to perform another transition, the work never ends.
- jenadine 2y ago
  And in some year there will be "Modern Rust"
bborud 2y ago
I would have expected to see some examples of how the GUIs look. Clicked around for a bit and didn't see one single example. This doesn't look serious at all.
- cyber_kinetist 2y ago
  It's mainly a Qt preservation project (The fully open-source parts of Qt, but without the MOC compiler / QML / Qt Declarative) - so not that much different from it.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    So, just like Copperspice?

tialaramex 2y ago

"Modern C++" is the same rewrite costs as if you Rewrote It In Rust, except that at the end you still have C++ and are still on the same treadmill and will be doing this again next time. It makes sense for C++ trainers to promote this, it's repeat business. Every three years there will be another iteration of "Modern C++" (it seems like some want to now call C++ 20 and C++ 23 "Contemporary C++" instead of "Modern C++" but it's the same again) and you're back to do more rewrites.

qsdf38100 2y ago
That’s a weird take. I would expect it not being the same cost to do a rewrite in Rust, like, not at all. You can do it incrementally with C++, not to mention not needing to hire a team of rust developers. I don’t think you want to let a team of C++ devs that are just learning Rust do a full rewrite as their first big project experience. Also, when switching from, say, C++20 to C++23, thinking it’s the same amount of work as a full rewrite in Rust is laughable.
spacechild1 2y ago
> Modern C++" is the same rewrite costs as if you Rewrote It In Rust Certainly not! The update can be done incrementally as pre-modern C++ is (almost) fully compatible with modern C++.
delfinom 2y ago
[flagged]
cue_the_strings 2y ago
This couldn't be farther from the truth. Not only will a Rust rewrite take 5-20x longer, you'll also be supporting 2 versions (C++ and Rust) for a long time, while doing the rewrite and migration, and that will eat up a lot of dev hours. I've done incremental C++ migrations and they are not nearly as complex or stressful, especially when you leverage libtooling or Python bindings to write AST-rewriting scripts for those large refactorings.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  > Not only will a Rust rewrite take 5-20x longer If "Modern C++" really was a static target you could imagine performing the transition to "Modern C++" and you're done. If that existed it would compare to the Rust rewrite, maybe it would be 5-20x faster. But "Modern C++" isn't a static target, if we understand "Modern C++" this way (say, as C++ 17) obviously it's unsuitable for such safety of life software. Instead the "Modern C++" transition is like a worse version of one of Zero's paradoxes. We never arrive at our intended destination and are always instead asked to perform another transition, the work never ends.
jenadine 2y ago
And in some year there will be "Modern Rust"

bborud 2y ago

I would have expected to see some examples of how the GUIs look. Clicked around for a bit and didn't see one single example. This doesn't look serious at all.

cyber_kinetist 2y ago
It's mainly a Qt preservation project (The fully open-source parts of Qt, but without the MOC compiler / QML / Qt Declarative) - so not that much different from it.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  So, just like Copperspice?